New Shops Coming To The Town Centre

[HatchetHarry]

Burgers have not become restaurant food.

A few glorified fast food chains, or pubs, try to call themselves that. Like they try to have you believe that what they have nothing to do with McDonald's by adding 'gourmet' to the name. Well, if you are a gourmet I'm sure you can look for an actual restaurant that cooks their own, real dishes.

Burgers are popular, that's true. No-one dislike burgers. They are also easily standardised and do not require a lot cooking skills so they are a great product for entrepreneurs.

Trying to actually cook is much more difficult and risky.

What I'm waiting for, though, is the gourmet hotdog. It's the next trend and you've heard it here first

[bobby1413]

that's true, because no-one dislike burgers.

Cows don't like them

[eddieed]

What I'm waiting for, though, is the gourmet hotdog. It's the next trend and you've heard it here first

I think the Crown on Caversham bridge would argue with you on that one! There menu is based on gourmet hotdogs since it was refurbished.

[bert]

You need to get out more

Burgers have become a restaurant food in these enlightened times, I've not eaten them myself but seen them on some top restaurant menus

Yep, agree with this.

No one is saying they're the pinnacle of haute cuisine, but the chains like Byron, Honest, Patty&Bun etc have made very successful businesses out of delivering a better quality product for more money. You can be reductive about anything, but there's obviously more to it than a beef patty and some bread. Droves of people would not be paying £12 - £15 for a burger and fries if they were comparable to products at McDonalds/BK.

[HatchetHarry]

but there's obviously more to it than a beef patty and some bread. Droves of people would not be paying £12 - £15 for a burger and fries if they were comparable to products at McDonalds/BK.

Marketing is a wonderful thing.

It's not a burger, it's a gourmet burger.
It's not bread, it's artisan sourdough. It's not a beef patty, it's aged organic Angus beef that sacrificed itself.
And, of course, these are not fries, these are triple fried British organic heirloom potatoes with Cornish sea salt.

And thus, in fact they have to charge £15 a burger for the narrative to work. A gourmet product has to be more expensive.

[bert]

Marketing is a wonderful thing.

I'm going to send you a posh burger via Deliveroo to try and convert you

As to your other points, as I said, it's easy to be reductive about anything. If you can't see the difference, that's fine, but there is a difference.

[HatchetHarry]

I'm going to send you a posh burger via Deliveroo to try and convert you

I do like them, so it would be gratefully received . But I still consider that this is fast food and that the high street is invaded by fast food chains.

And some of them are also not that great and too heavy. I'm quite OK with an Angus Classic from BK.

[bert]

But I still consider that this is fast food and that the high street is invaded by fast food chains.

And some of them are also not that great and too heavy. I'm quite OK with an Angus Classic from BK.

Yes, I agree with you about the high street. I use them for a quick lunch if I want something above a BK (although I also like a BK)...but prefer to support somewhere like Pepe Sale if I'm going for a 'proper' meal out. I suppose I see them in that middle ground.

I'm hungry now after all this talk of burgers

[Pooneil]

Burgers have not become restaurant food.

The 2015 article entitled "Here's what burgers look like at 16 Michelin-starred restaurants around the country" would seem to beg to differ. Whilst the country in question is the USA, it is quite clear that these are restaurants and they're serving burgers...

[HatchetHarry]

Burgers have not become restaurant food.

The 2015 article entitled "Here's what burgers look like at 16 Michelin-starred restaurants around the country" would seem to beg to differ. Whilst the country in question is the USA, it is quite clear that these are restaurants and they're serving burgers...

That tends to prove my point above, actually.

[ReadingT]

This thread has gone very odd.

What new shops are coming to Reading?

[Laura_Eva]

Shops are leaving Reading, and closing down all over UK.

A lost middle market served by the likes of Woolworths, C&A, Littlewoods, BHS.

Some major market players like M&S struggle to balance books, Next has become sad tat for an indeterminate customer demographic.

Reading caters for bargain basement chavs with Primark, New Look, H&M, and a dozen pound shops.

It also caters for middle / upper market but only in Heelas and House of Fraser, and a few shops in the Oracle.

Seems independent retail shopping is on the decline, replaced by fast food establishments which make a bigger turnover ...

Even Sevenoaks HiFi has moved out of a "retail dead" shopping mall into a Caversham shop (bad move), Audio-T perseveres as the only shop in Reading selling premium audio gear, and survive as upper end hi-fi has retail price protection.

Yes, what new exciting shops are coming to Reading ?

[Voiceoftreason?]

FYI, Primark is the number one profit centre of one of the biggest retail organisations in the U.K.

[THC]

I wouldn’t say H&M is down market.

John Lewis and house of Fraser are not upper market.

[Voiceoftreason?]

Nor is Reiss upper market - upper market to who? - per se. Flipping expensive though. Probably why it never looks busy.

[Mayfield]

Does lower, middle and upper market actually mean anything ?

I don't go into Reading that often, maybe twice a month, but it's rarely quiet...whatever it's selling it seems that lots of people want it...and after all, every fashionista knows a few quality pieces can be eked out very effectively with a few less expensive items....

As for Sevenoaks Hifi's move to Caversham being an error, I doubt they have much in the way of casual passing trade and people will travel to where they are...no need to be in expensive town centre premises....

[ReadingT]

Shops are leaving Reading, and closing down all over UK.

A lost middle market served by the likes of Woolworths, C&A, Littlewoods, BHS.

Some major market players like M&S struggle to balance books, Next has become sad tat for an indeterminate customer demographic.

Reading caters for bargain basement chavs with Primark, New Look, H&M, and a dozen pound shops.

It also caters for middle / upper market but only in Heelas and House of Fraser, and a few shops in the Oracle.

Seems independent retail shopping is on the decline, replaced by fast food establishments which make a bigger turnover ...

Even Sevenoaks HiFi has moved out of a "retail dead" shopping mall into a Caversham shop (bad move), Audio-T perseveres as the only shop in Reading selling premium audio gear, and survive as upper end hi-fi has retail price protection.

Yes, what new exciting shops are coming to Reading ?

“Bargain basement chavs”?

That sounds like a horribly judgemental and inaccurate thing to say. Lots of people shop in Primark, H&M and New Look. Shop clientele are fluid; I’m not sure you can pigeon hole people and say there are certain types of shop for certain types of people.

I’ll go wherever I think there are things I’ll like and for a price I want to pay. Some of the “upper market” places you mention are terribly overpriced and some of the “chav” places have great products for great prices.

Where do you shop?!

[ReadingT]

Does lower, middle and upper market actually mean anything ?

I don't go into Reading that often, maybe twice a month, but it's rarely quiet...whatever it's selling it seems that lots of people want it...and after all, every fashionista knows a few quality pieces can be eked out very effectively with a few less expensive items....

As for Sevenoaks Hifi's move to Caversham being an error, I doubt they have much in the way of casual passing trade and people will travel to where they are...no need to be in expensive town centre premises....

[Laura_Eva]

Maybe it should be about shops leaving the town centre ?

This evening I visited the Oracle (first time in a over a month) to buy a box of pretty Xmas cards for obligatory overseas relatives in Clintons, selection I'd seen in large stores Middlesbrough, Teesside Park, and Stockton-on-Tees, only to find the store closed.

Seems like even Clintons with its normally priced cards and celebratory tat can't afford Oracle rents, its small rump store on Broad Street shut at 6:30pm ... new "Card Factory" shop with its dirt cheap crass basic penny designs seems to have the bigger presence in Broad Street ...

Guess I should have just stuck with my favourite cards from Amnesty International and Oxfam on-line and charity shops ?

There's a huge vacant shop frontage all the way to Vodafone and Debenhams (LHS as you go up escalators from Broad Street), seems like a mystery retailer is mad enough to take it on ...

[ReadingBiker]

There's a huge vacant shop frontage all the way to Vodafone and Debenhams (LHS as you go up escalators from Broad Street), seems like a mystery retailer is mad enough to take it on ...

I think that frontage is actually the one with the 2 story extension about to be built behind it (going down to yield hall place) as for Cards, I have always found Clinton's incredibly overpriced for the Tat they sell, not much over card factory quality for 5x the price, ever since they wiped out Hallmark it has been downhill for them

[Mayfield]

Laura_Eve, I buy my cards from Whistlefish online, they have good offers on : 10 good quality greetings cards for £8 and no doubt there will be a sale post Christmas.( usually their selection, but they are all pretty decent ) Their wrapping paper is very nice quality too. Smallish Cornish Company.

https://www.whistlefish.com

Ps Just checked Xmas cards are currently 15 for £7, not bargain basement but they are each as good as individual cards you see at £2 - £3 each...buy now for next year !

[Voiceoftreason?]

M and S do nice cards, some for a quid each and three for two - as do Next. But then I don't think the point of Laura Eves post was about cards. More to have a pop at the Oracle and ram home how much better somewhere else is, than here. As Mayfield said, there's plenty of online retailers for cards.

Most people understand the Oracle is meant to be a 'destination' with premium stores, not a cut price corner shop. It knows its market, same as Broad Street Mall does. I don't think a retail establishment like the Oracle will go under for the want of a card shop.....

[THC]

Amusing to learn that Teeside, one of the most economically depressed areas in the country, where houses cost c.£10k in parts, is a better overall shopping experience than Reading

[bobby1413]

Amusing to learn that Teeside, one of the most economically depressed areas in the country, where houses cost c.£10k in parts, is a better overall shopping experience than Reading

I'm sure that's true

(it isn't)

[cnb]

This evening I visited the Oracle (first time in a over a month) to buy a box of pretty Xmas cards for obligatory overseas relatives in Clintons, selection I'd seen in large stores Middlesbrough, Teesside Park, and Stockton-on-Tees, only to find the store closed.

Seems like even Clintons with its normally priced cards and celebratory tat can't afford Oracle rents, its small rump store on Broad Street shut at 6:30pm ... new "Card Factory" shop with its dirt cheap crass basic penny designs seems to have the bigger presence in Broad Street ...

Clintons will probably disappear completely in the the next few years. It's been in administration twice in the last decade, and now only has about a third of the stores it had 10 years ago. It was in serious trouble before the online competition became mainstream, which suggests that it was just very poorly managed.

[chris_j_wood]

Most people understand the Oracle is meant to be a 'destination' with premium stores, not a cut price corner shop. It knows its market, same as Broad Street Mall does. I don't think a retail establishment like the Oracle will go under for the want of a card shop.....

Absolutely. There is quite a lot of stuff going on on the mall front at the moment, with Hammerson (who jointly own the Oracle with Abu Dhabi) taking over intu, and Westfield being taken over by a French outfit. Both seem to based on the ability of one partner to establish such destinations. Judging by the couple of rather tired intu malls I've been to recently, I think Hammerson understands the 'destination' thing a lot better than intu, whilst the French are buying Westfield mostly so they can roll out its name and know-how across their existing portfolio.

I tried to find out who owns the Broad Street Mall, but all I discovered is that it is owned by Inception (Reading) SARL, whose registered address is 56 Rue Charles Martel L-2134 Luxembourg. So who knows who the beneficial owner is.

[Fed-up]

It wouldn't be the Moorgarth Group would it?

http://www.hicksbaker.co.uk/hicks-baker ... l-reading/

and

http://www.moorgarth.com/about-us/

[Voiceoftreason?]

During my time at a recent job, I met a lady that was charged with relaunching BSM and finding a new anchor store for them (good luck with that!). I can't for the life of me remember her name or the company she worked for. From fed-ups post, it looks like it's moorgath tho.

[ash]

During my time at a recent job, I met a lady that was charged with relaunching BSM and finding a new anchor store for them (good luck with that!). I can't for the life of me remember her name or the company she worked for. From fed-ups post, it looks like it's moorgath tho.

Yes, the last I heard was that Moorgarth are the owners of Broad Street Mall. Has anyone been to the urban market in the former Argos unit? I was surprised to hear that this recently opened, but from the photos it looks very much like a temporary store, and personally didn't look too inviting to me.

I think the Broad Street Mall needs a leisure element, like the Oracle has the cinema and Riverside.

[Voiceoftreason?]

I've not been in the BSm for a couple of weeks and didn't know about the urban market. That's quite a big unit there at the previous Argos site so will take some filling I should imagine. Don't know what sort of leisure element they could have. I should imagine it's a difficult site to secure after usual trading hours, so how well a restaurant, say, or some other facility might do, is an interesting thought.

Aside from, I think, Cafe Rouge and the five guys place (at least one is only daytime hours, isn't it?), aren't all the food and drink outlets in the Oracle external to the Oracle itself e.g. RIversite, and not mixed in with the shops? That wouldn't be easy to do with BSM I shouldn't think. Putting any external food and drink out lest in BSM wouldn't necessarily entice people inside, and if the food and drink places were inside, then it's back to the security problem in the evening again I should think.

[Laura_Eva]

Sure I have a gripe with the Oracle since being threatened by heavies and asked to delete pictures just for the heinous crime of taking photos of the nighttime canal area, neon illuminated bars & restaurants, and Vue cinema.

Seems everything within its borders has "copyright protection" ... you need to buy a license to take a snap !

My point about Stockton-on-Tees, yes one of the most deprived areas in the country (but if I ever move back there I could live like King / Queen in the lovely still unspoiled Georgian suburban village I grew up in, and I still dream of owning a Georgian house in. All I need to do is sell my main residence, not touch my rental property, or inheritance or savings and pensions) is that it can still support a Clintons card shop, indeed many independent card shops ...

You maybe can't buy a Mulberry or Chanel handbag in Teesside, it doesn't have John Lewis and just a very poor House of Fraser, but you can buy the practical things so much more easily in town; it has a wonderful seven day a week indoor butchers market, a food court of proper independent enterprises, a proper outdoor market twice a week.

Reading is getting absolutely out of touch with its declining working class demographic. Communities have their own shops (Asian / Polish / etc.).

And there's hardly even one proper butcher or greengrocer or English deli (selling pies, hams, sliced meats, faggots, quiches, filled baps) left in the town centre !

Anything interesting or non-corporate is being prised out of Reading ...

[Voiceoftreason?]

If it's true that you need a license, get one. Otherwise I would think the so called heavies are within their rights to act as they did, if they did.

Reading is not Stockton on Tees, Liverpool or any Uotopia. Reading is Reading. Love it or leave it.

Declining Working class demographic? Don't be daft. Reading is one of the busiest technology, insurance and telecoms areas around. Has been for years. Working class demographic may have once referred to beer, biscuits and bulbs back in the day, but not now - Reading isn't defined by working class demographics exclusively. It's a thriving, busy, quite important business hub with a wide diversity of organisations and population, which is not based on heavy manufacturing and labour. The shops and service industries reflect that pretty accurately. We have everything from House of Fraser (if that's your benchmark) to pound shops and everything in between. And I like that.

If you are referring to food, meat and groceries, then yes, communities have their 'own' shops, whatever that means, but you can bet your bottom dollar (or maybe not, you might need that for your Georgian house) that their customers are not exclusively of the same ethnic origin. People are much more diverse in their food prep, eating and tastes and therefore their food shopping habits these days.

As for greengrocers I suggest the Oxford Road and for deli type foods Sweeney Todds or even, gasp, a supermarket or Marks! If the demand isn't there, why would you have a seven day a week butchers market when there are perfectly adequate butchers and supermarkets?

Bit sick of people taking cheap shots and knocking the town.

[Pooneil]

Sure I have a gripe with the Oracle since being threatened by heavies and asked to delete pictures just for the heinous crime of taking photos of the nighttime canal area, neon illuminated bars & restaurants, and Vue cinema.

Seems everything within its borders has "copyright protection" ... you need to buy a license to take a snap !

It's private land and their photo policy is clearly displayed on their website, an approach which is pretty decent compared to a number of private venues where finding out about their photography policy is rather more of a quest.
I also note that their procedure about requesting permission makes no mention of a fee or buying a license. That said it would also seem to be off-limits to Jo(e) Public wanting to take the odd picture.

I might disagree with their justification ("security, health and safety and brand copyright of the centre (protecting artwork, architectural features and promotions)"), since anybody researching the place to identify security loopholes would almost certainly use a concealed camera, and their "brand copyright" reasons sound like tosh, but they are pretty clear and upfront about what is and isn't allowed on their property.

[HatchetHarry]

They were talking out of their backside. It's fine taking pictures on the riverside and they cannot use force against you (that's assault).

I have taken dozens of pictures of the riverside. Everyone does. If they want to keep it for themselves they jus need to close it down...

[Fed-up]

It's private property and therefore they are within their rights to ban photography on their property. The only place I think they cannot ban you taking photos from is the southern side of the riverside. The reason is that this is a public path/right of way. Taking photos from the streets outside is perfectly legal as well.