RBH redevelopment

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RTT
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by RTT »

who is the actual person/group that will make this decision?
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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About the refurb or relocation of the RBH? I’d presume as it’s strategic, RBH Board initially as first and foremost it’s a business decision being made by a Trust. If they go down the relocation route, they might choose to do a consultation with patients. Obviously if there’s land purchase or planning involved, I’d likewise presume RBC needs involvement. If any new land is identified, I’d guess neighbouring Councils too. RBH might want to go into a private partnership for some of the areas - radiology for example - with external providers, and maybe bring in franchisees to run any refreshment areas etc.

Before anyone does anything, they need to find the money......
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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can a hospital gain privileges like the railway for example to say we want this bit of land ie the other side of green park and then go through that process.
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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RTT wrote: 16 Feb 2022 16:08 can a hospital gain privileges like the railway for example to say we want this bit of land ie the other side of green park and then go through that process.
Like a Compulsory purchase? No I don’t think so but I don’t know for sure. You’d need to ask an expert. They would probably have to buy any land at market rates I should think. Compulsory purchases are only made in specific circumstances - Poo or OM might know more about that.

If the land was for sale, I don’t think RBH could even ask to be the preferred bidder. An open market sale would be to the highest bidder.

It’s an interesting question.

Edit:- Well well, it seems they can. Extract below from the link.....

A compulsory purchase order is a legal function in the United Kingdom that allows certain organisations – including NHS Trusts – to obtain land or property without the consent of the owner, so long as there is a “compelling case in the public interest”. Owners or occupiers can challenge this, and their objection will be heard by an independent Inspector

https://www.swbh.nhs.uk/about-us/strate ... ase-order/
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by dave m »

To build a new hospital it has to fit into the Health Infrastructure Plan. ie the Government is supposed to ensure that hospitals are fairly distributed among the population and stumps up cash.

An area has to express an interest, the Government decides if it can go ahead, and arranges the dosh

Interestingly, the RBH is among the "New Hospitals" being talked of by Boris and Chums even though it's just some extension work being carried out.
I don't know where the line is drawn but an extension isn't a "new" hospital. maybe the bar is set so low that a new coffee machine counts?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 16 Feb 2022 15:55 About the refurb or relocation of the RBH? I’d presume as it’s strategic, RBH Board initially as first and foremost it’s a business decision being made by a Trust. If they go down the relocation route, they might choose to do a consultation with patients. Obviously if there’s land purchase or planning involved, I’d likewise presume RBC needs involvement. If any new land is identified, I’d guess neighbouring Councils too. RBH might want to go into a private partnership for some of the areas - radiology for example - with external providers, and maybe bring in franchisees to run any refreshment areas etc.

They do seem to have so,me sort of consultation. this was sent out last November:

Royal Berkshire Hospital Redevelopment: Community Events
Royal Berkshire Hospital is holding a series of community engagement events for local people to update them on the progress of the redevelopment and ensure that the redevelopment plan meets the needs of staff, patients, visitors and local communities. These community engagement events will share the latest updates on the redevelopment plans, and welcome suggestions and ideas from the very diverse community around us. All are welcome.
Alison Foster, the Programme Director of Building Berkshire Together Hospital Redevelopment, will also be talking about the Trust’s sustainability work and what we’re doing to achieve Net Zero. The next two events will be online via a webinar. The dates are as follows, and you can register to attend by emailing [email protected]
Wednesday 10 November (15.00-16.30 hrs)
Wednesday 17 November (18.00-19.30 hrs)
More face-to-face engagement events will be organised, so if you can’t make it to these two and want to get involved, please register your interest or share your thoughts by emailing [email protected]
Also, if you would like us to come to an event or meeting you are holding and listen to your views, then let us know and we will try to accommodate this.



Website link: Join our Building Berkshire Together engagement events

For more details contact: [email protected]
Before anyone does anything, they need to find the money......
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Oh right. Thanks MJ and davem. Things obvious go way further back in a process and are more complex than want it, do it for this kind of development.

I never saw any of this - but then, I wasn’t looking for it back then (or now, tbh). Like all consultations and things of this nature, those with a vested interest, those with an axe to grind on either side of the argument etc, will already be au fait with a lot of this. Then, when it’s done and dusted, ‘people’ get up in arms when the decisions have been made, and screen ‘someone should have done something’. I don’t recall much, if anything, in the press or on here about t, but then I could have just as easily missed that too.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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mikejee wrote: 16 Feb 2022 17:33
Voiceoftreason? wrote: 16 Feb 2022 15:55 About the refurb or relocation of the RBH? I’d presume as it’s strategic, RBH Board initially as first and foremost it’s a business decision being made by a Trust. If they go down the relocation route, they might choose to do a consultation with patients. Obviously if there’s land purchase or planning involved, I’d likewise presume RBC needs involvement. If any new land is identified, I’d guess neighbouring Councils too. RBH might want to go into a private partnership for some of the areas - radiology for example - with external providers, and maybe bring in franchisees to run any refreshment areas etc.

They do seem to have so,me sort of consultation. this was sent out last November:

Royal Berkshire Hospital Redevelopment: Community Events
Royal Berkshire Hospital is holding a series of community engagement events for local people to update them on the progress of the redevelopment and ensure that the redevelopment plan meets the needs of staff, patients, visitors and local communities. These community engagement events will share the latest updates on the redevelopment plans, and welcome suggestions and ideas from the very diverse community around us. All are welcome.
Alison Foster, the Programme Director of Building Berkshire Together Hospital Redevelopment, will also be talking about the Trust’s sustainability work and what we’re doing to achieve Net Zero. The next two events will be online via a webinar. The dates are as follows, and you can register to attend by emailing [email protected]
Wednesday 10 November (15.00-16.30 hrs)
Wednesday 17 November (18.00-19.30 hrs)
More face-to-face engagement events will be organised, so if you can’t make it to these two and want to get involved, please register your interest or share your thoughts by emailing [email protected]
Also, if you would like us to come to an event or meeting you are holding and listen to your views, then let us know and we will try to accommodate this.



Website link: Join our Building Berkshire Together engagement events

For more details contact: [email protected]
Before anyone does anything, they need to find the money......
Well I’ve just e-mailed a few colleagues from one local group I am on and none of them have seen / heard any of this - amazing as 3 of them are local councillors?
Who the hell did RBH send this stuff out to? – this does tie in with the non-response we have had when RBH has been approached on local issues in the past.................
I live relatively local and first I’d heard of it
A quick web search brings up a ’new’ group called Building Berkshire Together who seem to be behind part of it all, but again not heard of them - it appears they did an ITV report on them, but it was an online one
Anything else I can find comes from Healthwatch – again a web based group so maybe they think everyone just follows on there

And oddly majority of information all comes from / is linked to - West Berks Council Health and Wellbeing Board?


How did you hear of it Mike?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by chris_j_wood »

I think we have to remember that the B in RBH stands for Berkshire, not Reading. The hospital serves a large swath of west and central Berkshire, from Newbury to Bracknell and beyond, not just Reading. It happens to be in Reading now, but it is quite likely that if it relocates it won't be.
Last edited by chris_j_wood on 17 Feb 2022 11:15, edited 2 times in total.
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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chris_j_wood wrote: 17 Feb 2022 11:09 I think we have to remember that the B in RBH stands for Berkshire, not Reading. The hospital serves a large swath of west and central Berkshire, from Newbury to Bracknell and beyond, not just Reading. It happens to be in Reading now, but it is quite likely that if it relocates it won't be.
Good point. It’s also part of a Foundation .trust, that includes Slough and Frimley, so services could potentially be shared......
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Most of the path services already go to Frimley Park.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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maggieaitch wrote: 17 Feb 2022 12:13 Most of the path services already go to Frimley Park.
I was thinking more of nursing type Departments Maggie - lol, now I can’t name one, duh. Obviously not maternity services but maybe something not necessarily time critical, hence the travel wouldn’t impact on treatment? Maybe something like the old medical wards where people went to complete their recovery or recuperate. I think Prospect Park was something like that. Apparently my mum was some kind of nurse (add or subtract familial habit of embroidering the truth) and she said that people with TB were sent there to recover??
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by rolew »

I caught TB in the RAF and I was in Park Hospital for five months and then on home treatment for a further seven months. This was in1955/56.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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chris_j_wood wrote: 17 Feb 2022 11:09 I think we have to remember that the B in RBH stands for Berkshire, not Reading. The hospital serves a large swath of west and central Berkshire, from Newbury to Bracknell and beyond, not just Reading. It happens to be in Reading now, but it is quite likely that if it relocates it won't be.
Agree, but it was first built in Reading – it is just a name after all

I remember when the A&E was at Battle which meant traipsing across town to get sorted, then they had one at both which was a better idea
My first experience of RBH, apart from seeing it there, was in 1967 when I went in as had basal pneumonia, similar when my father had his first HA in 1979 he had to go in Battle which also meant traipsing back / fourth to visit him with my mother
Now it’s the other way round and all at RBH so understand how people from West Reading must feel

Multiply that by all in the town, especially those in Caversham etc and you can see if a place is ‘outside’ of the Reading access routes it would be very difficult to get there – there again I bet if it comes under WBC or even WeBC they would want Reading Buses / RBC to sort out buses etc for it all!

The current RBH trust has centres in various other place that give local cover – if they move the main part of RBH (wards / specialist care etc) out but keep the old pace as a ‘local’ centre that wouldn’t bb so much a problem


And all better than the moranic idea that was once proposed of putting a school in the old buildings.............
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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rolew wrote: 17 Feb 2022 12:54 I caught TB in the RAF and I was in Park Hospital for five months and then on home treatment for a further seven months. This was in1955/56.
Oooo Rolew, she would have been there then!
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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OLDMAN wrote: 17 Feb 2022 09:31 [
How did you hear of it Mike?
OM
Sorry I am a little late in replying. Only just reading messages. Some years ago the trust asked for people who were interested to register as members of the trust. These can elect members for their own area to the board , are invited to the AGM and to meetings and tours of the facilities. I registered, am not terrifically involved but have been to several AGMs and meetings . I received the message , but must admit did not go any further into it. I had assumed that local groups would have also been contacted
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by OLDMAN »

Thank you Sir – interesting info

And no - I’ve asked a few more people etc (and trawled through meeting minutes) and no-one seem to have heard of it before, including three who work there!

As I’ve said it does seem RBH are non-communicative with local groups / residents etc
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by ash »

I've seen a campaign group set up to move the Royal Berkshire Hospital to a site in Wokingham Borough.

To me, I don't really care which council area it is chosen to be in, as long as Reading continues to have a major acute hospital serving its community. True, the current hospital needs expanding.
RTT wrote: 15 Feb 2022 20:43 list of best hospitals in uk

https://www.newsweek.com/best-hospitals ... ed-kingdom
If you look at this link that RTT posted earlier, the sheer range of specialties offered at the Royal Berkshire Hospital is actually quite amazing. Other towns may have multiple smaller hospitals, each with a limited range of specialties. Or, they may have a smaller district general hospital and require patients to be referred to other major hospitals for specialist services. But the Royal Berkshire acts a lot more like a centralised site offering almost all the major specialties in one place.

Now, we live in a climate where publicly funded services are required to run at (or above) capacity, while funding is limited. If the Royal Berkshire was to be moved to a new site, it is completely plausible to imagine that the new hospital would be built to the minimal cost possible. Now, I'm not sure how this would pan out, but just food for thought, this could potentially involve outsourcing certain services and specialties to other hospitals in the region, hence negating the need for one at the new Royal Berkshire Hospital. As has been mentioned above, there are other large hospitals in the region already, who could easily be expanded (or simply be expected) to take up the extra pressures from a smaller Royal Berkshire Hospital.

Yes, something needs to be done to make the Royal Berkshire a bigger and better hospital. All in all, we could end up with a larger (or smaller) hospital for most services. But there's no guarantee it will offer the same range of services as we currently have access to.

I think we should be careful what we wish for.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Maybe splitting Maternity and gynae departments and putting them elsewhere would help ?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Mayfield wrote: 24 Feb 2022 21:25 Maybe splitting Maternity and gynae departments and putting them elsewhere would help ?
Seems we think think alike >>>
piwacket wrote: 15 Feb 2022 23:16 Does the Maternity Unit for example have to be on that site? Maybe a Unit could be built elsewhere - again convenient of course for the sake of mum-to-be- and if there is an unfortunate incident she or the baby or both could quickly be brought back to the main site……
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 17 Feb 2022 12:22
maggieaitch wrote: 17 Feb 2022 12:13 Most of the path services already go to Frimley Park.
I was thinking more of nursing type Departments Maggie - lol, now I can’t name one, duh. Obviously not maternity services but maybe something not necessarily time critical, hence the travel wouldn’t impact on treatment? Maybe something like the old medical wards where people went to complete their recovery or recuperate. I think Prospect Park was something like that. Apparently my mum was some kind of nurse (add or subtract familial habit of embroidering the truth) and she said that people with TB were sent there to recover??
I thought Readings TB patients went to Peppard Chest Hospital ….
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Mayfield wrote: 24 Feb 2022 22:46
Voiceoftreason? wrote: 17 Feb 2022 12:22
maggieaitch wrote: 17 Feb 2022 12:13 Most of the path services already go to Frimley Park.
I was thinking more of nursing type Departments Maggie - lol, now I can’t name one, duh. Obviously not maternity services but maybe something not necessarily time critical, hence the travel wouldn’t impact on treatment? Maybe something like the old medical wards where people went to complete their recovery or recuperate. I think Prospect Park was something like that. Apparently my mum was some kind of nurse (add or subtract familial habit of embroidering the truth) and she said that people with TB were sent there to recover??
I thought Readings TB patients went to Peppard Chest Hospital ….
This was back in probably early 50s Mayfield. Someone said on here they went to PP to recover from TB, but maybe there were two places.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by Mayfield »

Probably, oH had TB as a child -don’t think he went anywhere.

There were still clinics of some sort at Peppard in the 70’s - although it was showing it’s age by then, I took one of my ‘charges’ to a paediatrician there, about an allergy -and very sound advice he gave too…
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Many of the patients went from Park Hospital to Peppard for convalescent.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by dave m »

It's obvious (to most) that the RBH site has issues and is close to capacity.
There isn't much open land left and short of a CPO on some houses on Redlands rd and another CPO on the Morgan rd playing fields there is no space locally to expand. That would not be popular.

The RBH has the listed status as well, meaning that some of it's footprint is awkward to use in a modern medical context,
There's also an issue with the land.

I would expect the RBH to remain, but remove some services in favour of others, transferring those removed to another site.
With hindsight it was daft to lose Battle, although supposedly this released funds for the RBH. Central Government kept the change.

So an extra hospital will be needed- at some point if not now. It will be a decade before anything got built.
Reading has no open land to build on - bar parks or sports fields.
It will have to be elsewhere in Berkshire, even if that means just over the border.
It will need good transport links and if a greenfield site, parking.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by chris_j_wood »

I tend to agree with ash on this; we should be careful what we wish for.

Perhaps I am a cynic, but I'd put money on any move of the Royal Berks to another site leaving us with a smaller, less capable hospital. Sure it would probably have some nice spangley architecture, be on a bigger site and, yes, probably have better parking. But the floor space of the actual hospital would be smaller, and it wouldn't have all the medical facilities we take for granted at the current RBH.

Seen it happen too many times.
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chris_j_wood wrote: 25 Feb 2022 14:20 I tend to agree with ash on this; we should be careful what we wish for.

Perhaps I am a cynic, but I'd put money on any move of the Royal Berks to another site leaving us with a smaller, less capable hospital. Sure it would probably have some nice spangley architecture, be on a bigger site and, yes, probably have better parking. But the floor space of the actual hospital would be smaller, and it wouldn't have all the medical facilities we take for granted at the current RBH.

Seen it happen too many times.
Surely that has been the policy for many years. Reduce the number of beds as with modern medicine and quick turnarounds not so many are supposedly needed. Covid showed what a load if rubbish that argument was. Of course , up till recently, the number if administrative positions often held by managers with no experience of medicine , but plenty of cost cutting in departments other than their own bloated ones, either stayed the same or expanded. . The closure of the semi automated and quite efficient clinical analysis at the RBH was the product of one such creature, resulting in delays in obtaining results . This was quite a while before delays caused by the effort necessary for covid caused further understandable delays
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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MJ with respect, you may be confusing bed occupancy with bed usage. Yes you’re right about modern operations taking less time to recover from - think I mentioned they were talking about a ‘ one day knee’ which is down from the three days they anticipate someone to be in hospital for, for a knee replacement at the moment - itself down from what, about 10days at one time?

The advances in medical science, techniques and equipment have certainly reduced the number of days someone is likely to need a post-operative bed for.

That said, increased in the population, an aging population and arguably a less healthy population as well as covid, have put a strain on bed occupancy. For example, an elderly person who is otherwise fit to be discharged, can’t be as there is covid present in their care home, or there isn’t anywhere to discharge them to, or they live alone and social services need to be involved etc etc. These people have been unkindly called bed blockers - it’s not their fault - but they do continue to occupy the beds and take up resources, which may have been used for other patients with all kinds of conditions.

When covid was in full blow, more nursing staff were diverted to their care, and once they left ICE, they needed step down nurse, which also took up beds. There is only a finite number of beds to be had at this time - whatever the are used for -,
a weakness which is highlighted by any sudden surges like covid, or seasonal flu, or the winter vomiting virus etc. Yes there were less surgical procedures being done in NHS hospitals, for various reasons, but those beds and resources were redeployed for covid, so no further capacity, if you see what I mean. That is the folly in reducing bed numbers due to advances in surgical practices.

I agree with you about management. Generally they couldn’t manage their way out of a paper bag, IMHO.

TBH, I always wondered how they would staff the (largely unused) Nightingales. Wonder what happened to the equipment that was in them too.....
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 25 Feb 2022 17:25 MJ with respect, you may be confusing bed occupancy with bed usage. Yes you’re right about modern operations taking less time to recover from - think I mentioned they were talking about a ‘ one day knee’ which is down from the three days they anticipate someone to be in hospital for, for a knee replacement at the moment - itself down from what, about 10days at one time?

The advances in medical science, techniques and equipment have certainly reduced the number of days someone is likely to need a post-operative bed for.

That said, increased in the population, an aging population and arguably a less healthy population as well as covid, have put a strain on bed occupancy. For example, an elderly person who is otherwise fit to be discharged, can’t be as there is covid present in their care home, or there isn’t anywhere to discharge them to, or they live alone and social services need to be involved etc etc. These people have been unkindly called bed blockers - it’s not their fault - but they do continue to occupy the beds and take up resources, which may have been used for other patients with all kinds of conditions.

When covid was in full blow, more nursing staff were diverted to their care, and once they left ICE, they needed step down nurse, which also took up beds. There is only a finite number of beds to be had at this time - whatever the are used for -,
a weakness which is highlighted by any sudden surges like covid, or seasonal flu, or the winter vomiting virus etc. Yes there were less surgical procedures being done in NHS hospitals, for various reasons, but those beds and resources were redeployed for covid, so no further capacity, if you see what I mean. That is the folly in reducing bed numbers due to advances in surgical practices.

I agree with you about management. Generally they couldn’t manage their way out of a paper bag, IMHO.

TBH, I always wondered how they would staff the (largely unused) Nightingales. Wonder what happened to the equipment that was in them too.....
Bot
I seem to have not explained myself very well. My point was that the powers that be, usually not real medics, thought that beds could be reduced because of advances in procedures without any consideration of what this would mean in a non-perfect world in which things did not go as "they" wanted
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Post by Voiceoftreason? »

Clearly they had little medical knowledge indeed then MJ. If I can see the pitfalls as a civilian, why didn’t they? Make sure you wonder eh?
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With respect, the best medic on the planet couldn’t manage a large hospital.
Maybe the Dr in Downton Abbey could run his cottage hospital but even in the 1980’s I knew a guy who was training to be an NHS Administrator.

The people who run the University aren’t academics, the majority of the MoD aren’t soldiers.

So long as they carry out their professional function correctly, they enable medics to do their stuff.

The biggest problem is continual reorganisation of the NHS by Government, handing out contracts to companies with no medical experience. This extended to refusing to return calls by an existing supplier with a warehouse of stock, while talking to Dyson who’s units never arrived.
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Rats, my post disappeared. Essence was, a single medic doesn’t run the hospital, there’s a chief nurse and chief medical officer, as well as departmental heads, on the Board. Together they run a hospital

Agree on the rest, pretty much. There is a huge amount of waste both of effort with duplicating work in various CCGs and of physical stock/facilities/consumables etc.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by BOY RACER »

I think we need to step back and look at the NHS as a whole.firstly the NHS stands for NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE. Not any more. Figures now show that 50% of deaths in nursing homes was caused by the NHS. and 24% of other COVID deaths were caused by the NHS.People were refusing to go to a hospital for fear of catching COVID. This alone I find as a disgusting indictment of the service. No wonder it is now known as the NATIONAL HOLOCAUST SYSTEM.

At present there are £2 billion in judicial system against the NHS. OF THIS £1 billion is against one department. Maternity. There has to be something seriously wrong as MATERNITY is not even considered an ailment or illness, and should be taken out of the hands of the NHS and delt with by local government. (What happened to Dellwood.)

So RBH. OXFORD HAS 4 hospitals each is a teaching centre and each is EXCEPTIONAL, NUFFIELD AND RADCLIFFE PERFORMED 6 major operations on my first wife , to keep her alive and give her a better way of life. and I will be eternally grateful to them. They cared.

RBH is a general hospital and in most cases patients are sent to OXFORD or LONDON for treatment

So firstly we have to separate Materiny care fro general care.

So a new hospital for Reading. No maternity care but where can we put it

Firstly keep NORTH WING for maternity care only, the rest of the site can be used for building 800 flats.

So where to site the new Hospital.

As READING has always been a general hospital with patients being sent to LONDON OR OXFROD. for special care then anywhere in the Reading area will do

Obviously not in the TOWN CENTRE as the modern NHS does not want patients in Reading to be able to access their premises easily and READING BERKSHIRE HOSPITAL should be renamed READING AREA HOSPITAL. but where to site it. My suggestion is on the site of READING WEST BERKS HOSPITAL at thatcham. Before you say there is not enough room, you are al closeted to an east/west building. Look towards the future to a north/south building. Where instead of walking a 1/4 of a mile along numerous corridors you use lifts and escalators to take you to your department.
I may be a founder member of the “Grumpy Old Men’s Club” but I never complain. :whistle1:
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mikejee
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by mikejee »

Wasn't there something said earlier about being easily accessible. From Newbury perhaps, though I don't see emergency ambulances getting there very easily. As to public transport - heaven help the patients.
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piwacket
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by piwacket »

mikejee wrote: 02 Mar 2022 20:47 Wasn't there something said earlier about being easily accessible. From Newbury perhaps, though I don't see emergency ambulances getting there very easily. As to public transport - heaven help the patients.
Agree Mike.
But I guess where-ever is chosen when it comes to it (or not) some areas are going to be inconvenienced.
If one could pin-point an ideal site to suit everyone - although almost certainly not available - where would it be. Easy access by car, bus or whatever…. I’ve discounted train -who wants to be hanging around on a platform waiting for a train when you’re feeling like cr*p or going for chemo or dialysis, let alone the return journey…. Unless of course it was a dedicated ‘hospital’ transport train, doing nothing else but that! That won’t happen, no more than a dedicated bus or coach service from a dedicated central point say at the Station ?
There's no such thing as a free lunch
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