RBH redevelopment

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Fed-up
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by Fed-up »

OM - so where could it go within the RBC boundaries and still address some of the problems caused by the current location? The site at Green Park is split between West Berks, Wokingham and Reading.
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dave m
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by dave m »

other than planning, RBC or Wokingham have little to do with the site of the hospital.
the PCT covers Berkshire and the Hospital does as well.

Just because the current RBH is in Reading, it doesn't mean that any extension would need to be within it's borders.
Most of the University is outside Reading.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by ChipbuttyG »

That doesn't stop Tony Page sticking his 'beak' in ;-)

Somebody suggested the old SSE site as an extension.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by dave m »

The SEE site is tiny.
It's value exceeds the price that the NHS would pay
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by ChipbuttyG »

I wonder if the council would be for or against the prison being used?
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OLDMAN
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by OLDMAN »

ChipbuttyG wrote: 15 Feb 2022 14:44 I wonder if the council would be for or against the prison being used?
Not big enough and the wrong sort of building, and not sure the NHS would want to buy it
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OLDMAN
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by OLDMAN »

Fed-up wrote: 15 Feb 2022 14:04 OM - so where could it go within the RBC boundaries and still address some of the problems caused by the current location? The site at Green Park is split between West Berks, Wokingham and Reading.
TBH no idea!

We once did an overlay of RBH added a bit and looked at anywhere big enough to lay it over - and there's not a lot
Oldman........

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they annoyed me........................

I hug everybody –
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by RTT »

if invisible lines on a map rule out the best location other than staying put, plenty wrong with that.

not that it actually would be any issue the station and greenpark itself got over that hurdle, its a essential piece of infrastructure not a housing estate or theme park.

it either stays put or goes next to green park station anywhere else possible or not would be worse for access overall especially shinfield.
Last edited by RTT on 16 Feb 2022 15:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by RTT »

OLDMAN wrote: 15 Feb 2022 15:55
Fed-up wrote: 15 Feb 2022 14:04 OM - so where could it go within the RBC boundaries and still address some of the problems caused by the current location? The site at Green Park is split between West Berks, Wokingham and Reading.
TBH no idea!

We once did an overlay of RBH added a bit and looked at anywhere big enough to lay it over - and there's not a lot
do you work at the hospital? but yes exactly very hard to find a another site
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by maggieaitch »

I wonder if the old BBC site at Caversham Park would have been big enough.?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by Fed-up »

Both the buildings and the grounds of Caversham Park are listed, so any development would be near impossible. Plus the problems of crossing the river for more of Berkshire.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by maggieaitch »

Thank you Fed -up.
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

TBH, the cost of bringing any existing building up to spec would preclude a conversion IMHO. It would have to be a scratch build. If you take into consideration the needs of clinical and non clinical staff, they are entirely different. You’d need Wards, Theatres and all the kits that go with them - instruments, dressings and oxygen stores, decontamination and disposal facilities, path labs, probably a mortuary, ICU/HDU, radiology, physiotherapy, fracture clinic, renal and other specialities, paediatrics (with separate facilities and probably separate entrances) maternity, then you have clinics of all sorts, ophthalmology, Upper GI, gynae and specialist men’s and women’s services, and all the ‘oscopy clinics, podiatry, dentistry etc etc etc. That’s before you start on support staff - facilities and hotel services, linen and uniform stores, kitchens, probably restaurants - staff at least must eat, med secs, records, screening facilities, perhaps an on site pharmacy. Where are you going to store all the walking aids, wheelchairs, boots and other paraphernalia. Then you have clerical staff, bookings and the like, the Execs, Heads of Service and their staff, cleaners and on and on and on. That’s before you start on what the patients need. And parking.

Either way you’re stuffed - a new build would take probably the best part of a decade what with planning, financing, building, and decanting staff etc, and a refurbish RBH maybe almost as long. Both would cost millions and cause disruption to services. I would guess RBH would go for a refurb, with some services contracted out and some on a hub and spoke system like Townlands for ENT as mentioned.

I’d love an ultra modern built from scratch fit for purpose RBH, but unless I play one of those Sims games, I can’t see it happening.
Last edited by Voiceoftreason? on 15 Feb 2022 19:36, edited 1 time in total.
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mikejee
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by mikejee »

Thoroughly agree VoT, but a bit curious as to why you list restaurants as only probable and a pharmacy as possible. I would have thought both essential.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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mikejee wrote: 15 Feb 2022 19:01 Thoroughly agree VoT, but a bit curious as to why you list restaurants as only probable and a pharmacy as possible. I would have thought both essential.
An in house pharmacy already exists, IIRC, and I’d presume they’d want to keep it. They are helpful for patients who can go directly from their Consultation, to the pharmacy with their TTO meds - To Take Out or home, in other wordsand start their treatment right away, There will be a drugs store of some description at RBH (I shall have to find out) and it seems logical that as there already drugs on the premises, that retaining a pharmacy is a natural move.

Restaurants are a bit of an add-on to kitchens, in hospitals IME. One treatment centre I worked at had neither restaurant nor kitchen. Another place had a small staff restaurant. I’m trying to remember if the old Battle Hospital had a restaurant at all. They certainly had kitchens, I’ve been in them as a kid. Restaurant to are expensive to run, man and supply. There’s a lot of waste and energy costs too.

The one at RBHis quite big, plus they have at least two cafe style places as well. I would presume that staff have staff rooms too - theatres staff probably have, they tend to be a tight team and spend a lot of time in theatres once lists start, therefore don’t wander off down to the main restaurant, but take breaks in dedicated rooms. Some Wards staff would also have a mini kitchen I’d think - night shifts would need them, as the restaurant would be closed in the evenings.

It’s a case of who is the restaurant for? Staff or patients and visitors? Patients and visitors don’t need a big restaurant - the one downstairs in RBH serves full meals, roasts, bakes and cakes, sandwiches, rolls, things like lasagne, filled baked potatoes, soups, list of stuff - and a couple small cafes or coffee places would be good. You could probably run 5em on a franchise.
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mikejee
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by mikejee »

Sorry VoT. I appear to have misunderstood your earlier post. I wa sassumming by restaurant You meant for staff, I accepot that for patients it would not necessarily be essential. As to aPharmacy I was assumimg that you meant one for storage, dispensing and advice by a pharmacist for medicines to be used by hospital staff, not necessarily for use by the public
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 15 Feb 2022 17:29 TBH, the cost of bringing any existing building up to spec would preclude a conversion IMHO. It would have to be a scratch build. If you take into consideration the needs of clinical and non clinical staff, they are entirely different. You’d need Wards, Theatres and all the kits that go with them - instruments, dressings and oxygen stores, decontamination and disposal facilities, path labs, probably a mortuary, ICU/HDU, radiology, physiotherapy, fracture clinic, renal and other specialities, paediatrics (with separate facilities and probably separate entrances) maternity, then you have clinics of all sorts, ophthalmology, Upper GI, gynae and specialist men’s and women’s services, and all the ‘oscopy clinics, podiatry, dentistry etc etc etc. That’s before you start on support staff - facilities and hotel services, linen and uniform stores, kitchens, probably restaurants - staff at least must eat, med secs, records, screening facilities, perhaps an on site pharmacy. Where are you going to store all the walking aids, wheelchairs, boots and other paraphernalia. Then you have clerical staff, bookings and the like, the Execs, Heads of Service and their staff, cleaners and on and on and on. That’s before you start on what the patients need. And parking.

Either way you’re stuffed - a new build would take probably the best part of a decade what with planning, financing, building, and decanting staff etc, and a refurbish RBH maybe almost as long. Both would cost millions and cause disruption to services. I would guess RBH would go for a refurb, with some services contracted out and some on a hub and spoke system like Townlands for ENT as mentioned.

I’d love an ultra modern built from scratch fit for purpose RBH, but unless I play one of those Sims games, I can’t see it happening.

i agree its a shame we cant have a mega new green park berkshire hospital kinda proves where nhs is going :( would be amazing could also have a umiversity side to it world class :( easy to spend other peoples money


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The NHS is one of the largest employers in the world, and the biggest in Europe – with over 1.3 million staff. On a typical day, there are:

835,000 people who visit a GP practice

50,000 people visiting A&E departments

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Read more about NHS patient activity.

The NHS is certainly a rewarding place to work for overseas health professionals, with lots of exciting opportunities to make a real difference to patients’ lives. And there are many, many hospitals you could be working for; approximately 1,250 across the UK.

Largest hospital
St George’s Hospital is the largest in the UK, caring for 1.3 million people in southwest London, as well as populations in Surrey and Sussex, totaling around 3.5 million. It has 1,300 beds and 8,500 staff, as well as several centres of excellence, such as its stroke care and cardiology unit.

Highest ranking hospitals
Want to find out how well a hospital is performing? Visit the Care Quality Commission website. It’s a regulator of health and social care in England, and rates services to ensure that people receive safe and high-quality care.

Number of NHS trusts
An NHS trust is a healthcare provider, set up to deliver hospital and community services, and other aspects of patient care. There are 223 trusts in the UK (October 2019). However, and slightly confusingly, this number doesn’t match the number of hospitals; some trusts run more than one hospital, e.g. Manchester University NHS Foundation Trust runs nine in total.

Number of clinical commissioning groups (CCGs)
Established in 2012, CCGs are responsible for planning most primary, community and hospital care services, including emergency care in their local areas. There are currently 191 CCGs in England (April 2019).
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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RTT wrote: 15 Feb 2022 20:43 list of best hospitals in uk

https://www.newsweek.com/best-hospitals ... ed-kingdom
Well now that’s an interesting list RTT. I Wouldn’t have ranked some of them as they are. I wonder what their criteria is? I would have used the same list but ranked them using the CQC ratings.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 15 Feb 2022 21:01 Well now that’s an interesting list RTT. I Wouldn’t have ranked some of them as they are. I wonder what their criteria is? I would have used the same list but ranked them using the CQC ratings.
Do you have the CQC ratings?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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piwacket wrote: 15 Feb 2022 21:11
Voiceoftreason? wrote: 15 Feb 2022 21:01 Well now that’s an interesting list RTT. I Wouldn’t have ranked some of them as they are. I wonder what their criteria is? I would have used the same list but ranked them using the CQC ratings.
Do you have the CQC ratings?
You’d have to look them up individually, Pi. They don’t issue a list. I’ll pick out a couple and add them here.
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Here you go:-

https://www.cqc.org.uk/location/RDU01
https://www.cqc.org.uk/location/RHW01
https://www.cqc.org.uk/location/RN506
https://www.cqc.org.uk/location/RDU50

Edit. When you read these, be aware that some Inspections are announced - they know when the CQC are coming - and some are unannounced - the CQC has the right to walk into any regulated establishment at any time, anyone (service user or relative etc) can alert the CQC to any concern they have about an establishment which may then lead to the CQC doing an unannounced inspection.

Clearly there are advantages, and dis advantages, to both methods........
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 15 Feb 2022 21:15 Here you go:-
Thanks VoT.
Yes, I can see that ‘forewarned can be forearmed’ :) An unannounced inspection is probably more realistic…. ?
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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piwacket wrote: 15 Feb 2022 21:23
Voiceoftreason? wrote: 15 Feb 2022 21:15 Here you go:-
Thanks VoT.
Yes, I can see that ‘forewarned can be forearmed’ :) An unannounced inspection is probably more realistic…. ?
Yes, if concerns have been raised about care or safety etc. The CQC can, and do, take Enforcement Action. Sometimes this is immediate and can result in closing down the establishment, hence the great respect that healthcare professionals hold the CQC in. They will come back again and again u TIL the establishment reaches the required standards. They can put in new management if they want, demand robust recovery plans and all kinds of things, to bring the standard up to requirements, shutting the place in the meantime if they deem it unsafe for patients (in this case).

IMHO the CQC caught a cold on a few places in the early days of its Regulatory existence, and didn’t do as many unannounced inspections as they do now. Shipman brought about a lot of changes and tightening up of Standards.

Not all unannounced inspections are as a result of sinister reasons. Regulators expect regulated establishments to run with the same high standards at all times, likewise the establishments should be happy to have an open door to the CQC at all times.

Announced Inspections are notified probably 6-8 weeks ahead of time. The provider is compelled to submit huge amounts of information, Policies, evidence, statistics etc and answer a huge questionnaire, before the Inspection. The CQC uses this to check that the organisation does what it says it does, by observation, interviewing staff and examining the physical evidence. Sometimes it’s a focussed inspection - on Wards, or Radiology for example, sometimes it’s an organisation-wide one.

On average, healthcare providers undergo formal inspection every 2-3 years.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 15 Feb 2022 21:33 On average, healthcare providers undergo formal inspection every 2-3 years.
Thanks again. Every 2-3 years seems a big gap though. A lot can happen or change in that time….
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

piwacket wrote: 15 Feb 2022 22:20
Voiceoftreason? wrote: 15 Feb 2022 21:33 On average, healthcare providers undergo formal inspection every 2-3 years.
Thanks again. Every 2-3 years seems a big gap though. A lot can happen or change in that time….
True. There are notifiable events that (in this case) healthcare establishments MUST notify the CQC about. Various things from change of Manager, long term absence of manager, financial probity issues, safeguarding incidents, unexpected deaths and more. Each one of those might trigger an unannounced visit, as well as reported concerns from staff , service users or their relatives.

Formal inspections are regular, but the Regulator can, and does, walk in at anytime. Same as schools, prisons, care homes etc.
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MickEdge
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by MickEdge »

Maybe I’m being cynical but that GR article made me think that where it goes will not simply be what’s best for patients, as local politics will be a significant factor. The kudos of it being in Reading or Wokingham. However, in the end it might just be cheaper to keep it where it is, even though in many ways a green field site would be better, but only if a sufficiently subsidised and frequent public transport is guaranteed forever. I don’t think that’s going to happen.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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MickEdge wrote: 15 Feb 2022 22:41 Maybe I’m being cynical but that GR article made me think that where it goes will not simply be what’s best for patients, as local politics will be a significant factor. The kudos of it being in Reading or Wokingham. However, in the end it might just be cheaper to keep it where it is, even though in many ways a green field site would be better, but only if a sufficiently subsidised and frequent public transport is guaranteed forever. I don’t think that’s going to happen.
I think you’re probably right Mick.
With VoT saying earlier about certain treatments being done elsewhere, or another building -
Does the Maternity Unit for example have to be on that site? Maybe a Unit could be built elsewhere - again convenient of course for the sake of mum-to-be- and if there is an unfortunate incident she or the baby or both could quickly be brought back to the main site.
Can more floors to be added to the height of the present new bit of the hospital?
Or even A&E moved to another site - again, in the case of needing a bed - be ambulanced over to the main hospital. With maybe a ‘holding ward’ until ready to be moved?
So 2 or 3 smaller sites to be found with easy public access rather than one huge site.
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mikejee
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by mikejee »

I agree Pi. Magternity is one that probably could be housed elsewhere. The eye department also. I'm not a civil engineer, but I believe extra stories can usually only be easily adde to a building if the original building has been designed to be strong enough to take them, so, unfortunately that would probably mean a new building
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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RTT wrote: 15 Feb 2022 16:19
OLDMAN wrote: 15 Feb 2022 15:55
Fed-up wrote: 15 Feb 2022 14:04 OM - so where could it go within the RBC boundaries and still address some of the problems caused by the current location? The site at Green Park is split between West Berks, Wokingham and Reading.
TBH no idea!

We once did an overlay of RBH added a bit and looked at anywhere big enough to lay it over - and there's not a lot
do you work at the hospital? but yes exactly very hard to find a another site
No: but have a lot of friends / couple of relatives who do – plus I’m on local groups who get involved with local matters so have links via that to police / council / UofR / local businesses etc..................except RBH who aren’t interested in getting involved
e.g. - Parking consultations
Oldman........

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they annoyed me........................

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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by OLDMAN »

RTT’s question just made me kick myself - hard :banghead: - and made me think as I was once involved in the ....................medical industry designing medical equipment, but it was 13yrs ago

Consequently back then I had the chance to visits many hospitals etc and have to say that apart from a couple of exceptions all had parking / access problems
Anything in London and we had to use public car parks – any on the outskirts had huge cp’s but they always seemed to be full

Many others we visited and we always seemed to be struggling to park – a good one oddly was University Hospital Cardiff, but they had a huge carpark and a dedicated bus service, and only 2.5 miles from the city centre

So it’s not just RBH that has the problems
Oldman........

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they annoyed me........................

I hug everybody –
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Re: RBH redevelopment

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With travelling around the UK we have had cause to visit many Hospitals and none of them have adequate parking at peak times. These are relatively modern buildings as well. The Hallamshire in Sheffield is one of the worse, a very small ground plan but a large hospital with 21 floors (the tallest building in Sheffield) with just a small two story carpark that is usually full by 9am so they close it. Parking is almost impossible at times as the same parking is used by two other Hospitals as well. Many staff from out of the city park in the side streets well away from the building and get a taxi the rest of the way. My mate with cancer at Finchamstead has to go to the RBH every month for an injection but 'luckily' with being a cancer patient he has a pass so never has a problem with parking.

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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by maggieaitch »

I noticed that all the old prefabs on West Drive, have been demolished. I wonder what is planned for that area ?
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by dave m »

They weren't all prefabs, but were beyond use as clinical buildings and decades out of date. Bizarrely some people on facebook were banging on how they should be "saved".

I believe the plans have yet to be made but it will basically allow more modern clinical buildings to be tied in on the site.

The buildings have been unused for a while and it is a decent footprint if allowed to go up to a reasonable height.
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Re: RBH redevelopment

Post by dave m »

The University already does run a Pharmacy and Physician Associate course and many years ago seemed to want a Medical School but has gone rather quiet on that front
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