Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

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Fed-up
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Fed-up »

So not a Brexit problem, per se, but a worldwide Visa problem.
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OLDMAN
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

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Must admit the news about rising fees was from a business report and did mostly discuss the USA and the high impact on merchants accepting (or not) CC's from there
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by chris_j_wood »

It isn't worldwide. It is only in the UK. Indeed even in the UK, if your Visa credit card is issued by a bank outside the UK, you will still be able to use it.

Visa UK took advantage of brexit to impose a five-fold increase on the handling charge it imposes on retailers (from 0.3% to 1.5%). To be clear, I'm not sure if that rate applies to all retailers, or only ones based outside the UK, the reports are ambiguous. But either way, it applies to Amazon.

Not sure why Amazon havn't done same with Mastercard as well. Maybe just a case of picking your fights one at a time.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

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Fed-up wrote: 19 Nov 2021 10:54 So not a Brexit problem, per se, but a worldwide Visa problem.
Except if there hadn't been Brexit, Visa fees would have been pegged at 0.3%, and Amazon wouldn't have a problem, same as they don't have a problem with any EU card users. Because Brexit enabled them to quintuple their fees to 1.5%, the problem arose...
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Fed-up »

And we would also have a crap COVID vaccination rollout and probably be in another lockdown.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Pooneil »

Fed-up wrote: 19 Nov 2021 14:49 And we would also have a crap COVID vaccination rollout and probably be in another lockdown.
Covid responses across Europe have been the responsibility of individual governments, not the EU,so I doubt anything would be much different.
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Fed-up
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Fed-up »

Except for the vaccine which was coordinated by Brussels. So glad we had the gumption to invest early and reap the benefits. Despite the best efforts from Brussels.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Frank Blank »

Pooneil wrote: 19 Nov 2021 14:51
Fed-up wrote: 19 Nov 2021 14:49 And we would also have a crap COVID vaccination rollout and probably be in another lockdown.
Covid responses across Europe have been the responsibility of individual governments, not the EU,so I doubt anything would be much different.
Except that the Commission was responsible for the procurement process, which in major part explains the abortion of a roll-out across the Channel at first. In short, Von der Leyen was asleep at the wheel for that particular car crash.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

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And the Europeans (either EU or individual countries) were very reluctant to accept the Astra Zeneca vaccine, because they didn't think it was up to scratch. Which loads of people over here lambasted them over, with all sorts of allegations of this being in some way political. It turns out they were right all along; the AZ vaccine is markedly less effective than the Pfizer or Moderna.

As far as I'm aware nobody on this thread, or indeed pretty well anywhere else, has claimed that Covid is the fault of brexit. The politicians have, on the whole and give or take a few sleazy billions pfaffed over VIP lists, been as much passengers on the covid ride as we have. But Amazon and Visa, which is what this thread is supposed to be about, that is a different question altogether.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Mayfield »

C.A.Versham wrote: 19 Nov 2021 10:32 There seems to be new type of Godwin's Law developing. In any online discussion, on any topic, someone eventually mentions Brexit.

I tend towards the link to the launch of their own card.

Personally we do not buy anything from Amazon due to the way they avoid paying their fair share of taxes. Might be irrational of us but there we are.

I use a CC a lot and pay off the balance every month. I like the protection it gives. Very rarely use cash nowadays and almost never my debit card, which, by the way is the only one so far I've had cloned, most probably at London Airport.

I think you may be blaming the wrong people in boycotting Amazon - they do what every other business worth it’s salt does and act in the most tax efficient way possible within the law.

They also employ thousands of people directly and indirectly and like everyone else have to pay employment taxes and VAT.

If you think they should pay more tax, vote for the party that will change the law….
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Frank Blank »

chris_j_wood wrote: 21 Nov 2021 22:17 And the Europeans (either EU or individual countries) were very reluctant to accept the Astra Zeneca vaccine, because they didn't think it was up to scratch. Which loads of people over here lambasted them over, with all sorts of allegations of this being in some way political.
Obviously the Commission wasn't in full possession of the facts when it invoked Article 16.

But then the Commission is rarely in full possession of the facts; is it?
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

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Frank Blank wrote: 19 Nov 2021 17:30
Pooneil wrote: 19 Nov 2021 14:51
Fed-up wrote: 19 Nov 2021 14:49 And we would also have a crap COVID vaccination rollout and probably be in another lockdown.
Covid responses across Europe have been the responsibility of individual governments, not the EU,so I doubt anything would be much different.
Except that the Commission was responsible for the procurement process, which in major part explains the abortion of a roll-out across the Channel at first. In short, Von der Leyen was asleep at the wheel for that particular car crash.
Certainly they didn't cover themselves in glory around that, but there are a host of other factors at play; after all Malta (an EU country) and Iceland (whose vaccine supply was sourced through the EU) have higher vaccination rates than the UK, Portugal is within 0.5% of our vaccination rate and Spain is not far behind them.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

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Given the population size of Malta and Iceland I’m not surprised…..

Iceland is under 345,000 - they probably know if their neighbours wearing odd socks 🙄
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Fed-up »

The population of Portugal (10.3 million) is only slightly more than that of London (8.9 million) so I'm not surprised that they are close to the UK rate, only surprised it is not higher.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by cnb »

Fed-up wrote: 22 Nov 2021 07:54 only surprised it is not higher.
Portugal has a far higher proportion of its population 'fully vaccinated' per current local rules. The UK has given more 'doses per person', but that's because the Portuguese booster rollout has barely started. That would be expected for two reasons - first that people had their initial vaccinations later, and second that cold weather starts later (I'm sitting at my desk with the window open, and I'm in one of the colder parts of Portugal).
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Frank Blank »

Pooneil wrote: 22 Nov 2021 01:01
Frank Blank wrote: 19 Nov 2021 17:30
Pooneil wrote: 19 Nov 2021 14:51 Covid responses across Europe have been the responsibility of individual governments, not the EU,so I doubt anything would be much different.
Except that the Commission was responsible for the procurement process, which in major part explains the abortion of a roll-out across the Channel at first. In short, Von der Leyen was asleep at the wheel for that particular car crash.
Certainly they didn't cover themselves in glory around that, but there are a host of other factors at play; after all Malta (an EU country) and Iceland (whose vaccine supply was sourced through the EU) have higher vaccination rates than the UK, Portugal is within 0.5% of our vaccination rate and Spain is not far behind them.
What actually constitues 'fully vaccinated' nowadays. Two shots? Two shots + booster?

On the assumption governments across the moat eventually follow the UK lead, which seemingly will be defining fully vaccinated as two shots + booster, then the comparisons will become even more skewed.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by chris_j_wood »

I think one worry is that we will see oscillations going forward with different peaks in different countries at different times.

We have been through a high peak, possibly partly driven by a poor vaccine selection, partly by the fact that we started vaccinating earlier so the vaccines are further into their effectiveness decay, and partly because we dropped the public hygiene measures (masking, distancing) too soon. Now the booster is starting to have an effect, and it looks like there might be a level of natural herd immunity amongst the school kids who are the biggest disease vector, so our rates are going down.

In Europe, where vaccinations ramped up later, they are now starting to see the effects of vaccine effectiveness decay, and possibly fatigue with the public hygiene measures, their rates are going up. They will introduce boosters, which will bring those rates down. At the same time booster vaccine effectiveness decay will kick in here, and our rates will go up. On top of that, we are also starting to see cycle divergence between northern Europe and Mediterranean Europe, presumably driven by the different climates and hence indoor/outdoor life mix.

The problem with all that is that it is great for the virus, because different places peaking and troughing at different times means that there will always be somewhere with a decent reservoir of infection, ready to move elsewhere when the conditions are right.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by OLDMAN »

Pooneil wrote: 19 Nov 2021 14:46
Fed-up wrote: 19 Nov 2021 10:54 So not a Brexit problem, per se, but a worldwide Visa problem.
Except if there hadn't been Brexit, Visa fees would have been pegged at 0.3%, and Amazon wouldn't have a problem, same as they don't have a problem with any EU card users. Because Brexit enabled them to quintuple their fees to 1.5%, the problem arose...
I was reading up a bit more on this over the weekend
Coming out of EU has allowed Visa to up the merchant charge so that now matches what they charge around the rest of the world, so by coming out of the EU we now don’t get the capped 0.3% and it’s at their full rate

And that begs 2 questions
Will other ‘merchants’ do the same with UK purchasing?
How does the rest of the world buy off Amazon?
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God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they annoyed me........................

I hug everybody –
It’s not affection, I’m just measuring up how big a hole I need to dig for the body!
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by ChipbuttyG »

If you pay through Paypal and it's linked to your visa, does Amazon recognise it as Paypal or Visa?
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by cnb »

ChipbuttyG wrote: 22 Nov 2021 13:07 If you pay through Paypal and it's linked to your visa, does Amazon recognise it as Paypal or Visa?
Amazon doesn't accept payment by Paypal.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

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OLDMAN wrote: 22 Nov 2021 12:43 And that begs 2 questions
Will other ‘merchants’ do the same with UK purchasing?
How does the rest of the world buy off Amazon?
This doesn't apply to situations where the retailer and card issuer are both in the UK - the 0.3% cap still applies to those cases. It only affects Amazon because the amazon.co.uk site is run by a Luxembourgish company, and cross-border transactions are no longer capped.

Every Amazon site has its own negotiated terms with card networks based on local conditions. There are at least two other countries where Amazon has ongoing disputes with Visa. In Singapore and Australia if you pay with Visa you are charged a surcharge, but that would be illegal in the UK.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by ChipbuttyG »

cnb wrote: 22 Nov 2021 13:30
ChipbuttyG wrote: 22 Nov 2021 13:07 If you pay through Paypal and it's linked to your visa, does Amazon recognise it as Paypal or Visa?
Amazon doesn't accept payment by Paypal.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by MickEdge »

cnb wrote: 22 Nov 2021 13:37 This doesn't apply to situations where the retailer and card issuer are both in the UK - the 0.3% cap still applies to those cases. It only affects Amazon because the amazon.co.uk site is run by a Luxembourgish company, and cross-border transactions are no longer capped.
Just proves how difficult things get when you insist on taking back control. I ordered something from an EU based company and I nearly didn’t, because of the messages about potential charges and customs issues. How foreign the rest of Europe seems now.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by OLDMAN »

cnb wrote: 22 Nov 2021 13:30
ChipbuttyG wrote: 22 Nov 2021 13:07 If you pay through Paypal and it's linked to your visa, does Amazon recognise it as Paypal or Visa?
Amazon doesn't accept payment by Paypal.
You can if you use a PayPal cash card or credit card
Oldman........

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they annoyed me........................

I hug everybody –
It’s not affection, I’m just measuring up how big a hole I need to dig for the body!
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by cnb »

OLDMAN wrote: 23 Nov 2021 07:36
cnb wrote: 22 Nov 2021 13:30
ChipbuttyG wrote: 22 Nov 2021 13:07 If you pay through Paypal and it's linked to your visa, does Amazon recognise it as Paypal or Visa?
Amazon doesn't accept payment by Paypal.
You can if you use a PayPal cash card or credit card
Those cards are Mastercard cards, so Amazon accepts payment with Mastercard, not Paypal.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by OLDMAN »

Ok - not got one so didn't realise, just looked at how to use PP once before
Oldman........

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they annoyed me........................

I hug everybody –
It’s not affection, I’m just measuring up how big a hole I need to dig for the body!
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by MickEdge »

It’s worth bearing in mind how the Section 75 credit card protection works with PayPal and also buying from Amazon third party sellers, which makes the credit card company liable for problems with your supplier, for purchases over £100. This legal protection doesn’t apply if you pay with your credit card via PayPal, because PayPal are agents and not covered by the law. However the major credit card companies do adhere to their own voluntary scheme known as Cashback. This article explains it all. Don’t be put off by the headline.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credi ... Section75/
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

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chris_j_wood wrote: 21 Nov 2021 22:17 And the Europeans (either EU or individual countries) were very reluctant to accept the Astra Zeneca vaccine, because they didn't think it was up to scratch. Which loads of people over here lambasted them over, with all sorts of allegations of this being in some way political. It turns out they were right all along; the AZ vaccine is markedly less effective than the Pfizer or Moderna.
I wouldn't be so sure about that (I'm being polite here). When the studies do eventually come out I'll be very interested to see whether AZ's all important T-cell response is better than that of Pfizer or Moderna.

That could explain in part why hospitalisations here are moving in the right direction compared to Europe, given 'immunity' - especially among the elderly - is lasting longer because of a superior T-cell response.

(Also) In the meantime: (source FT)

“The UK chose to have a long, broad peak, while much of Europe will have a small but very high peak,” said Jeroen van der Hilst, associate professor of immunopathology at Hasselt university in Belgium.

“At some point, you have to face up to unvaccinated people getting infected and breakthrough infections . . . The UK was wise to do that during the relative calm of summer [as] we are only just doing it now.”

So, if the overall objective is to ensure the health system doesn't fall over (as we're constantly being told) Boris, Vallance, Whitty et al have played a blinder.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by KeithW »

KeithW wrote: 17 Nov 2021 13:38 I predict that Amazon will come to some arrangement, they're just posturing. They still won't get my money though.
<Amazon>
The expected change regarding the use of Visa credit cards on Amazon.co.uk will no longer take place on January 19. We are working closely with Visa on a potential solution that will enable customers to continue using their Visa credit cards on Amazon.co.uk. 
>/Amazon>
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

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KeithW wrote: 17 Jan 2022 11:50<Amazon>
The expected change regarding the use of Visa credit cards on Amazon.co.uk will no longer take place on January 19. We are working closely with Visa on a potential solution that will enable customers to continue using their Visa credit cards on Amazon.co.uk. 
>/Amazon>
Why am I not surprised?
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Fed-up »

It would be interesting to see what has forced the decision (a reduction in fees from Visa or the addition of alternative payment methods not being sufficiently high).
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Fed-up »

I see that Amazon have now reached a global agreement with Visa:
We've recently reached a global agreement with Visa that allows all customers to continue using their Visa credit cards in our stores. As a result, we will not move forward with our previous plans to stop accepting UK issued Visa credit cards.
Just a shame that 2 corporations could not sort it out without causing a lot of worry for UK consumers. The temporary pause was only a few days before the deadline and would have caused a lot of customers to try and obtain Mastercard credit cards.
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

Fed-up wrote: 17 Feb 2022 10:56 I see that Amazon have now reached a global agreement with Visa:
We've recently reached a global agreement with Visa that allows all customers to continue using their Visa credit cards in our stores. As a result, we will not move forward with our previous plans to stop accepting UK issued Visa credit cards.
Just a shame that 2 corporations could not sort it out without causing a lot of worry for UK consumers. The temporary pause was only a few days before the deadline and would have caused a lot of customers to try and obtain Mastercard credit cards.
I wonder if Amazon has any interest in MasterCard?
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Fed-up »

The Amazon credit card is Mastercard. Surely that is completely unconnected. :whistle1:
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Re: Amazon to stop accepting Visa credit cards

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

Fed-up wrote: 17 Feb 2022 11:08 The Amazon credit card is Mastercard. Surely that is completely unconnected. :whistle1:
Gotcha :wink:
Disclaimer: it wasn't me as wot said it, it was my iPad spellchecker!
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