Traveller problems

chat about the town here ...
ChipbuttyG
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Re: Traveller problems

Post by ChipbuttyG »

RBC are a terrible council IMO. I'm not blaming the staff really. (Although they may have something to do with the constant late accounts)

It's those, as you say who drive the decisions such as the councillors. I've had all manner of communication with our councillors over the years on various topics. The incorrect responses are a joy to behold. It's actually worrying they get so many things incorrect.

I had a scenario where I asked Tony Page for some information on roadworks, done by the council. He denied they even happened. He said "your assertion these road works took place are incorrect" (even though I witnessed them with my own eyes). My 'assertions' were corroborated by councillor Raj Singh. So I went back to Tony Page and asked for the information I originally asked for. He then didn't even have the decency to admit he was incorrect and supply me with the information I required. I guess it was because it exposed the council for wasting a five figure sum on some road markings that shouldn't have been done.

Sorry for the digression rant.

As for rocking up to gain entry - emergency service would have a key fob rather than a set of keys for hydraulic bollards.
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: Traveller problems

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Key fob, keys - You know what I meant. Been I while since I worked for them so can’t say exactly what they use now. As for Councillors. You don’t like em don’t vote for em.
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piwacket
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Re: Traveller problems

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 19 Sep 2021 11:09 Key fob, keys - You know what I meant. Been I while since I worked for them so can’t say exactly what they use now. As for Councillors. You don’t like em don’t vote for em.
Ah but that’s the surprising thing - people do vote for them! Is that just laziness or that the ‘other side’ offer no real alternative? Doesn’t stop people moaning about how badly their choice manages things. :whistle1:
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ChipbuttyG
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Re: Traveller problems

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I could never vote for our Labour lot in Reading. Far too many reasons to list.

The council needs a huge shake up and it would be great to have more representation from other parties. Perhaps the proposed boundary changes might help?
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Re: Traveller problems

Post by BOY RACER »

When we talk of the travelling community we are of course talking of the Irish travellers .A group of people who travel from site to site, set up camp without permission and leave, leaving all thier filthy rubbish behind for others to clear up. Most are not even British but of Irish descet of which they are proud. So be it. When this matter was broached some years ago the then Irish prime minister, forget his name said words to th effect, you have allowed them into your Country your problem and washed his hands of the problem. Today you cannot say anything,however true about this group of people because they are classed as an EFFNICK minority and to do so makes you a racist.
I would suggest that we do not revert to National dictation but as a Democratic nation leave it to the local community to decide how to deal with these EFFNICKS in their community.
I may be a founder member of the “Grumpy Old Men’s Club” but I never complain. :whistle1:
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: Traveller problems

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WRT the Effnicks?

In the immortal words of Alien - I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure 😌
Last edited by Voiceoftreason? on 19 Sep 2021 22:48, edited 1 time in total.
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KeithW
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Re: Traveller problems

Post by KeithW »

PC49 wrote: 19 Sep 2021 21:04
<snipped racist diatribe>
My uncle was a copper in Reading, probably about your age, I imagine you'd know him. He was a racist too, gleefully telling stories about how he'd stopped 'coons' or' pakis' for various motoring offences.

He was actually a nice bloke otherwise.
ChipbuttyG
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Re: Traveller problems

Post by ChipbuttyG »

Does anyone know if the travellers are still on Kings Meadow? Our local press (Chronicle and GetReading) seem to have stop reporting on all the illegal encampments. There was nothing on the Westfield Park encampment and nothing on the Kings Meadow encampment.

I'm sure we'll get another news article on another burger or fried chicken place opening up though...
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Re: Traveller problems

Post by dave m »

http://www2.westsussex.gov.uk/ds/cttee/ ... 14i10c.pdf

Estimated cost per bollard in 2014 from West Sussex is £30k. Plus £500 per bollard annual maintenance.

Fire engines do indeed carry keys to padlocks (plus bolt cutters)
Rather like disabled toilet "radar" keys, there is a range of universal padlocks for emergency services.
However I imagine that a copy of a key can't be that hard to obtain
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: Traveller problems

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I think you’ll find a bolt cutter is a universal key for the looky likies, Dave.......
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ChipbuttyG
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Re: Traveller problems

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dave m wrote: 20 Sep 2021 08:56 http://www2.westsussex.gov.uk/ds/cttee/ ... 14i10c.pdf

Estimated cost per bollard in 2014 from West Sussex is £30k. Plus £500 per bollard annual maintenance.

Fire engines do indeed carry keys to padlocks (plus bolt cutters)
Rather like disabled toilet "radar" keys, there is a range of universal padlocks for emergency services.
However I imagine that a copy of a key can't be that hard to obtain

Pretty good value when you consider Reading Council wasted £53,065.00 for a few cones and water filled barriers on the failed one-way system in Caversham for the active travel scheme during lockdown.
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Re: Traveller problems

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dave m wrote: 18 Sep 2021 11:47 ChipbuttyG

Please give an estimate of the cost per bollard, including installation
I know, I know please sir let me answer this one.........................

And I do know only because we looked at them where I once worked

£4500-5000 for a decent 300mm diameter x 600mm high electric or hydraulic version (price depends on which)

BUT – it the has to be installed, plus power cables etc set up for it if none available so I reckon about double or more that cost ‘each’...............at least
Oldman........

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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: Traveller problems

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You’re such a swot, OM :dancechicken2:
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ChipbuttyG
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Re: Traveller problems

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BUT - The taxpayer has to foot the bill for every illegal encampment. Eviction, clean up and providing portaloo costs.

It'll be interesting to put in a FOI request to the council to see how much it has cost over the years for this ongoing problem. Although after receiving several FOI requests with incorrect information I can't guarantee it would be accurate.
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: Traveller problems

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ChipbuttyG wrote: 20 Sep 2021 13:12 BUT - The taxpayer has to foot the bill for every illegal encampment. Eviction, clean up and providing portaloo costs.

It'll be interesting to put in a FOI request to the council to see how much it has cost over the years for this ongoing problem. Although after receiving several FOI requests with incorrect information I can't guarantee it would be accurate.
How do you know the information is incorrect? A lot of organisations now publish the kind of common FOI request information, on their websites. No organisation has to give free access to all their info, so there will be restrictions. You want to know, then an FOI is the way to go.

The tax payer pays for the Brigade as well, but I’ve only ever called them out once in over 50 years. I don’t resent the 49 years I paid for their upkeep and not used them.

Your FOI request could also include a question of the breakdown of costs to the tax payer of all the elements of an average eviction and aftermath, if you’re that way inclined.

Council tax covers every service etc you receive - there are a few that I don’t agree with, but we all have to pay it 🤷🏻‍♀️
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ChipbuttyG
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Re: Traveller problems

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 20 Sep 2021 13:18
ChipbuttyG wrote: 20 Sep 2021 13:12 BUT - The taxpayer has to foot the bill for every illegal encampment. Eviction, clean up and providing portaloo costs.

It'll be interesting to put in a FOI request to the council to see how much it has cost over the years for this ongoing problem. Although after receiving several FOI requests with incorrect information I can't guarantee it would be accurate.
How do you know the information is incorrect? A lot of organisations now publish the kind of common FOI request information, on their websites. No organisation has to give free access to all their info, so there will be restrictions. You want to know, then an FOI is the way to go.

The tax payer pays for the Brigade as well, but I’ve only ever called them out once in over 50 years. I don’t resent the 49 years I paid for their upkeep and not used them.

Your FOI request could also include a question of the breakdown of costs to the tax payer of all the elements of an average eviction and aftermath, if you’re that way inclined.

Council tax covers every service etc you receive - there are a few that I don’t agree with, but we all have to pay it 🤷🏻‍♀️
Because I received a reply from both Tony Page and Simon Beasley which were exactly the same and they were incorrect. One, copied and pasted from the other. One was going straight to Tony Page and the other was in form of a FOI. Both replies denied road markings work happened. It wasn't until I received a reply from Councillor Raj Singh who confirmed this work had been done (I knew it had been done too). I then when back to Tony Page with confirmation from Raj and asked again for the costing. Tony didn't bother to reply.

I went back to Simon Beasley several times, before he finally confirmed it had indeed been done.

Then there was Reading Bridge. I asked for a costing on the painted cycle lanes for the active travel scheme). The council painted two white lines across Reading bridge (supposed to be cycle lanes but too narrow). The costing for the white lines came to more than the entire re-painting of Tilehurst station to Norcot junction (of which there is far more painting work).
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: Traveller problems

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You said several, suggesting you’d made multiple FOIs, not that you’d recover two responses to the same FOI. Cllr Singh then gave you the response. If it was a new FOI question, and it remained unanswered, Cllr Page is obligated to respond within a prescribed timescale. If he did not, there was nothing to prevent you from chasing him up. Cllr Page May have presumed that as you had received a reply from Cllr Singh then the FOI as discharged.

No idea who Simon Beasley is.

Have you had a response re the white lines in Reading Bridge such that you now have figures for both that and the cost of the Tilehurst station/Norcot Junction work? You seem to intimate that you have as you state that one was more than the other, haven’t said how much each one was.
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ChipbuttyG
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Re: Traveller problems

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 20 Sep 2021 14:59 You said several, suggesting you’d made multiple FOIs, not that you’d recover two responses to the same FOI. Cllr Singh then gave you the response. If it was a new FOI question, and it remained unanswered, Cllr Page is obligated to respond within a prescribed timescale. If he did not, there was nothing to prevent you from chasing him up. Cllr Page May have presumed that as you had received a reply from Cllr Singh then the FOI as discharged.

No idea who Simon Beasley is.

Have you had a response re the white lines in Reading Bridge such that you now have figures for both that and the cost of the Tilehurst station/Norcot Junction work? You seem to intimate that you have as you state that one was more than the other, haven’t said how much each one was.
I've told you some FOI request responses have been inaccurate and given you some examples. Hence why I question the validity of other responses.

If I hadn't been persistent with this FOI request, both Tony Page and Simon Beasley would have just fobbed me off with 'didn't happen''. I've already said I went back to Tony Page for a response on the question I originally asked, which was a costing of the road markings. Of which he never responded. I chased him up several times and no response. Why? I guess it's because it exposed expensive road marking work which should never have took place. Because a week later it was all hydro-blasted away and re-done for the active travel scheme.

Simon Beasley is the network and parking manager for RBC.

The white lines for Reading Bridge cost £8725.14 (this is just for the painting of the lines and doesn't include staff costs or sign installation costs)
The white lines between Tilehurst Station and Norcot junction cost £5405.54. (again, just for the painting of the lines).

Now - if you know Reading Bridge and Tilehurst Station to Norcot, you'll know there is far more painting involved between Tilehurst station and Norcot than two simple white lines over Reading Bridge, so again, I question the validity of these figures.

The total cost of both works came to much higher, with the hydro-blasting, re-painting of the lines again.
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Re: Traveller problems

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ChipbuttyG wrote: 21 Sep 2021 09:46 The white lines for Reading Bridge cost £8725.14 (this is just for the painting of the lines and doesn't include staff costs or sign installation costs)
The white lines between Tilehurst Station and Norcot junction cost £5405.54. (again, just for the painting of the lines).
So if the costs don't include staff (labour) costs or installation (labour) costs, what is covered by the figures quoted?
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Re: Traveller problems

Post by BOY RACER »

Well KeithW you prove a point. You come across as the typical small minded big mouth bigoted idiot. Trying to be clever. It does not work. For what it is worth I am not a racist. I do not condemn these people because they are Irish. I condem them for the manor in which they live and cause other innocent people problems. But people like you immediately come out with your typical rhetoric. You certainly do not help the situation. This group of people known as Irish Travellers should be made to conform with normal living standards, and I feel this would be best served by the local community. I sometimes think wether I am right or wrong you deliberately do your posts with the intent to cause controversy.
I may be a founder member of the “Grumpy Old Men’s Club” but I never complain. :whistle1:
ChipbuttyG
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Re: Traveller problems

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Hooped wrote: 21 Sep 2021 12:24
ChipbuttyG wrote: 21 Sep 2021 09:46 The white lines for Reading Bridge cost £8725.14 (this is just for the painting of the lines and doesn't include staff costs or sign installation costs)
The white lines between Tilehurst Station and Norcot junction cost £5405.54. (again, just for the painting of the lines).
So if the costs don't include staff (labour) costs or installation (labour) costs, what is covered by the figures quoted?
My post says.
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Re: Traveller problems

Post by KeithW »

PC49 wrote: 21 Sep 2021 13:04
<snipped>

For what it is worth I am not a racist. I do not condemn these people because they are Irish.
You thought their nationality important enough to mention a few times. You failed the duck test.
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Re: Traveller problems

Post by dave m »

I am often surprised by the costs of jobs estimated by people on here and actual costs that can be found.
It's not surprising - we had an area about 10m square (or less) painted with a yellow box diagonal pattern.
It had to go through our estates department, never known for underpricing.

They external contractor arrived and was off within an hour.
The bill was £3k.
Three guys, one to operate the shoe used to lay the paint, one to top up the paint, and one to lean on his shovel.

Public works or road like works cost a bloody fortune.
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Re: Traveller problems

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"This group of people known as Irish Travellers should be made to conform with normal living standards"

while I don't support the way that the Travellers behave, I don't think that the above quote exactly represents a spirit of tolerance or personal liberty.
No doubt your image of normality is different to others.
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: Traveller problems

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dave m wrote: 21 Sep 2021 13:43 "This group of people known as Irish Travellers should be made to conform with normal living standards"

while I don't support the way that the Travellers behave, I don't think that the above quote exactly represents a spirit of tolerance or personal liberty.
No doubt your image of normality is different to others.
Not necessarily.

Most decent people wouldn’t [email protected] outside where they live, steal/ anti-social behaviour ( and lets not forget, murder a copper in the execution of a crime), leave their children illiterate and un-educated, marry their women whilst they pretty much are still children themselves, and think it’s ok to leave huge mess behind them. They might have the right to live as the want, but the a)don’t have the right to feck up my life and living and b) take away my right to not agree with their lifestyle.

I can’t think of one single benefit a Traveller brings to this world.
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Re: Traveller problems

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“ I've already said I went back to Tony Page for a response on the question I originally asked, which was a costing of the road markings. Of which he never responded. I chased him up several times and no response. Why? “

Do you know what a vexatious enquiry is? RBC is pretty hot on not responding to multiple enquiries on the same question, deeming the enquires to be vexatious. Probably why you didn’t get a further reply, as the FOI would have been closed, the process deemed satisfied by sending you your first response.
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Re: Traveller problems

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 21 Sep 2021 14:40 “ I've already said I went back to Tony Page for a response on the question I originally asked, which was a costing of the road markings. Of which he never responded. I chased him up several times and no response. Why? “

Do you know what a vexatious enquiry is? RBC is pretty hot on not responding to multiple enquiries on the same question, deeming the enquires to be vexatious. Probably why you didn’t get a further reply, as the FOI would have been closed, the process deemed satisfied by sending you your first response.
The e-mail to Tony Page wasn't a FOI request. It was just an e-mail to him. The FOI request response I received was from Simon Beasley.

Of which I opened another FOI request explaining that their answer was incorrect with evidence. On, I think about the 4th attempt of trying they finally confirmed the work had been done and gave me the costings So it makes me wonder how many other FOI requests are incorrect if they can get something so simple, so wrong, so many times.

Still, it tells you what sort of person Tony Page is, I think his ego wouldn't admit he got it wrong.
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Re: Traveller problems

Post by dave m »

Voiceoftreason? wrote: 21 Sep 2021 14:36
dave m wrote: 21 Sep 2021 13:43 "This group of people known as Irish Travellers should be made to conform with normal living standards"

while I don't support the way that the Travellers behave, I don't think that the above quote exactly represents a spirit of tolerance or personal liberty.
No doubt your image of normality is different to others.
Not necessarily.

Most decent people wouldn’t [email protected] outside where they live, steal/ anti-social behaviour ( and lets not forget, murder a copper in the execution of a crime), leave their children illiterate and un-educated, marry their women whilst they pretty much are still children themselves, and think it’s ok to leave huge mess behind them. They might have the right to live as the want, but the a)don’t have the right to feck up my life and living and b) take away my right to not agree with their lifestyle.

I can’t think of one single benefit a Traveller brings to this world.
Travellers do themselves no favours and to be honest are allowed to get away with lots that you or I couldn't.
Some are downright criminal (although so are some settled people)

It's the "made to conform" line that triggers my Radar
plus certain public forces used to have a particular dislike of nonconformity
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Re: Traveller problems

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dave m wrote: 21 Sep 2021 15:00
Voiceoftreason? wrote: 21 Sep 2021 14:36
dave m wrote: 21 Sep 2021 13:43 "This group of people known as Irish Travellers should be made to conform with normal living standards"

while I don't support the way that the Travellers behave, I don't think that the above quote exactly represents a spirit of tolerance or personal liberty.
No doubt your image of normality is different to others.
Not necessarily.

Most decent people wouldn’t [email protected] outside where they live, steal/ anti-social behaviour ( and lets not forget, murder a copper in the execution of a crime), leave their children illiterate and un-educated, marry their women whilst they pretty much are still children themselves, and think it’s ok to leave huge mess behind them. They might have the right to live as the want, but the a)don’t have the right to feck up my life and living and b) take away my right to not agree with their lifestyle.

I can’t think of one single benefit a Traveller brings to this world.
Travellers do themselves no favours and to be honest are allowed to get away with lots that you or I couldn't.
Some are downright criminal (although so are some settled people)

It's the "made to conform" line that triggers my Radar
plus certain public forces used to have a particular dislike of nonconformity
Excuse me if I’m being dense, but do you mean the Law? I can’t speak for Pc but I would presume what he meant by ‘made to conform’ would be referent to obeying the Laws of the land such as other citizens are expected to do.

Not sure what you mean by certain public forces used to have a particular dislike of conformity? Who, and what, do you mean - I must be dense after all as I don’t know.
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Re: Traveller problems

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No one at RBC is under any obligation to respond to an email request. A complaint yes, an FOI yes, but not an email.

Perhaps and FOI on how many FOIs are made, and hw many were incorrect would assist you 😊

I’ve no idea what Mr Page is like, I’ve never met him.
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Re: Traveller problems

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dave m wrote: 21 Sep 2021 13:38 I am often surprised by the costs of jobs estimated by people on here and actual costs that can be found.
It's not surprising - we had an area about 10m square (or less) painted with a yellow box diagonal pattern.
It had to go through our estates department, never known for underpricing.

They external contractor arrived and was off within an hour.
The bill was £3k.
Three guys, one to operate the shoe used to lay the paint, one to top up the paint, and one to lean on his shovel.

Public works or road like works cost a bloody fortune.
Yep. The failed Caversham one-way system that was implemented last year and since been removed cost a whopping £53,065.00. For a few cones, a couple of water filled barriers, a couple of signs and a sandbag or two.
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Re: Traveller problems

Post by ChipbuttyG »

Voiceoftreason? wrote: 21 Sep 2021 15:17 No one at RBC is under any obligation to respond to an email request. A complaint yes, an FOI yes, but not an email.

Perhaps and FOI on how many FOIs are made, and hw many were incorrect would assist you 😊

I’ve no idea what Mr Page is like, I’ve never met him.
I do. He didn't have the decency to admit he was wrong and supply me with the info I originally requested. Because it uncovered a huge amount of wasted money by Tony and his traffic mis-management team.
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ChipbuttyG wrote: 22 Sep 2021 08:32
Voiceoftreason? wrote: 21 Sep 2021 15:17 No one at RBC is under any obligation to respond to an email request. A complaint yes, an FOI yes, but not an email.

Perhaps and FOI on how many FOIs are made, and hw many were incorrect would assist you 😊

I’ve no idea what Mr Page is like, I’ve never met him.
I do. He didn't have the decency to admit he was wrong and supply me with the info I originally requested. Because it uncovered a huge amount of wasted money by Tony and his traffic mis-management team.
Clearly you’re a Tony Page expert who knows the inner workings of another’s individuals head - and I thought I was the only one with mind-meld abilities 🙄. Do you really expect anyone, to ‘admit they were wrong’? Why would they, you’re no one to them - you’re not special. I’d be careful what you say in a public forum with regards to what you allegedly uncovered.

Ranting on here won’t change what’s happened so may as well give it a rest. You asked a question, you were given an answer. Whether or not your satisfied with it is neither here nor there. It’s the answer you were supplied with. You’re totally at liberty to take it up with them, but don’t be surprised if you don’t get anywhere - it’s a small fry thing to them.

Money gets wasted in every organisation. Doesn’t take an accountant to know that.
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Re: Traveller problems

Post by dave m »

My comment said that some forces/services (whatever) have a dislike of NON conformity.

Many people of colour, or social groups, ways of dressing or appearance have been targeted purely because they "looked a bit different"

PC Savage wasn't a comedy sketch, it was a comment.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y5dy9URkLFI
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Re: Traveller problems

Post by ChipbuttyG »

Voiceoftreason? wrote: 22 Sep 2021 08:39
ChipbuttyG wrote: 22 Sep 2021 08:32
Voiceoftreason? wrote: 21 Sep 2021 15:17 No one at RBC is under any obligation to respond to an email request. A complaint yes, an FOI yes, but not an email.

Perhaps and FOI on how many FOIs are made, and hw many were incorrect would assist you 😊

I’ve no idea what Mr Page is like, I’ve never met him.
I do. He didn't have the decency to admit he was wrong and supply me with the info I originally requested. Because it uncovered a huge amount of wasted money by Tony and his traffic mis-management team.
Clearly you’re a Tony Page expert who knows the inner workings of another’s individuals head - and I thought I was the only one with mind-meld abilities 🙄. Do you really expect anyone, to ‘admit they were wrong’? Why would they, you’re no one to them - you’re not special. I’d be careful what you say in a public forum with regards to what you allegedly uncovered.

Ranting on here won’t change what’s happened so may as well give it a rest. You asked a question, you were given an answer. Whether or not your satisfied with it is neither here nor there. It’s the answer you were supplied with. You’re totally at liberty to take it up with them, but don’t be surprised if you don’t get anywhere - it’s a small fry thing to them.

Money gets wasted in every organisation. Doesn’t take an accountant to know that.
Yep. I've had more dealings with him than you by the sounds of it, so better placed to make a judgement.

There's nothing to hide from what I "allegedly uncovered". I have the evidence thanks.

I did get somewhere though didn't I?

If voters are "nothing to them" then that's the problem with Reading Council.

Equally, your persistent defence of the council won't get you anywhere so why are you ranting 'belittling' replies at me?
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