The silly politics thread

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Mayfield
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Mayfield »

j9j9j9 wrote: 13 Dec 2019 19:22This.
It's never worth falling out with anyone about politics, no matter how strong your ( and their ) views
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by KeithW »

Mayfield wrote: 15 Dec 2019 20:54
j9j9j9 wrote: 13 Dec 2019 19:22This.
It's never worth falling out with anyone about politics, no matter how strong your ( and their ) views
Yeah right. Those EDL guys are just great.
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Mayfield »

'Falling out' kind of implies you had a friendly relationship before hand......I wonder if those EDL guys have any friends other than each other ?
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by chris_j_wood »

Mayfield wrote: 15 Dec 2019 20:38 Think they are going to BoB so who knows 😀😀😀😀😀
Perhaps I should send them a message asking them to lookout for a photo of a Brunel station in London Road. :-)
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by OLDMAN »

KeithW wrote: 12 Dec 2019 19:40 St Luke's in Erleigh Road was the busiest I've seen it, though only on the left hand side for some reason (there are two desks with allocated roads).

The woman in front of us in the queue was 29 and had never voted before, she said lots of her friends were similar. An EU national on the right hand side was turned away, he's on the register but can't vote in a general.
We vote in Sutton Primary school and its always been like that

There are 4 ‘desk’ areas each covering a list of roads, 3 off them always have long queues but the one we use (our road on the list) never has a queue
Thursday, we went in about 3:30pm and the other 3 desks had about 8-10 people at them, ours had ‘none’
As we left the other queues had got longer!

Oddly I asked about this before and was told the areas (desks / lists) are all supposedly equal numbers of people so shouldn’t be like that
But I’ve noticed the list we are on is made up of a few ‘long’ roads whereas other lists are made up of many shorter roads - still doesn’t explain the queues!
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by j9j9j9 »

Quite.
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piwacket
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by piwacket »

Oh yes j9 how true is that! :clap3:
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Frank Blank »

Seeing as it's based on a report about Corbyn's shortcomings I suppose the report will fit in here.

In short, the word 'chilling' springs to mind if you're a Labour Party supporter.

"In order to win the 124 additional seats it needs to form a majority government in 2024, Labour would have to increase the number of MPs it has by 60% - something that has never been achieved by any party.

"And if Labour fails to “reverse its fortunes in Scotland in a significant way” it will have to win a swath of English seats, right up to Commons leader Jacob Rees-Mogg’s in North East Somerset, to secure a majority."

In other words, Boris will win next time round - even after accounting for Boris. :roflol3:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... port-finds
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by joe_smooth »

There is a long way to go and the impending disaster of Brexit coupled with the poor handling of the pandemic might give Starmer the edge. Boris has got a few more major cockups up his sleeve before 2024 I'm sure.
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Frank Blank »

Oh dear, it looks as if Rebecca Wrong-Daily is ....er....wrong again. At least in Starmer's eyes.

From The Grauniadista.

"Starmer sacks Long-Bailey for sharing article on Twitter including antisemitic conspiracy theory

Rebecca Long-Bailey has been sacked as shadow education secretary, the Labour party has announced. Sir Keir Starmer dismissed her following her Maxine Peake tweet (see 2.47pm). A spokesman for Starmer said:

This afternoon Keir Starmer asked Rebecca Long-Bailey to step down from the shadow cabinet. The article Rebecca shared earlier today contained an antisemitic conspiracy theory. As leader of the Labour Party, Keir has been clear that restoring trust with the Jewish community is a number one priority. Antisemitism takes many different forms and it is important that we all are vigilant against it.
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Mayfield »

I'm really not a fan of RLB and most certainly not of John McDonnell but I too thought this was the case

,Former shadow chancellor John McDonnell, who supported her leadership bid, said: "Throughout discussion of anti-Semitism it's always been said criticism of practices of Israeli state is not anti-Semitic.'
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Frank Blank »

Mayfield wrote: 26 Jun 2020 12:03 I'm really not a fan of RLB and most certainly not of John McDonnell but I too thought this was the case

,Former shadow chancellor John McDonnell, who supported her leadership bid, said: "Throughout discussion of anti-Semitism it's always been said criticism of practices of Israeli state is not anti-Semitic.'
Indeed, the default position nowadays seems to be any criticism of the the state of Israel is an anti-semitic trope.

And it will still be the prevailing orthodoxy even if the following happens(as reported by the BBC yesterday).

"Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu could annex parts of the occupied West Bank this summer. He says the move, stemming from US President Donald Trump's peace plan, will write another "glorious chapter in the history of Zionism".

I've bolded the last bit because it disgusts me even more (if that's possible) than the preceding text, which is bad enough.
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Pooneil »

Mayfield wrote: 26 Jun 2020 12:03 I'm really not a fan of RLB and most certainly not of John McDonnell but I too thought this was the case

,Former shadow chancellor John McDonnell, who supported her leadership bid, said: "Throughout discussion of anti-Semitism it's always been said criticism of practices of Israeli state is not anti-Semitic.'
It wasn't a simple criticism of the Israeli state though; the article that RLB re0-tweeted claimed that police linked to the death of Mr Floyd in Minneapolis had been taught the kneeling on the neck procedure at a seminar given by the Israeli secret service.

It would seem that the kneeling on the neck procedure is not used y the Israeli secret service, and they didn't train the Minneapolis police, so the piece in the article was not simply a criticism of the practices of the Israeli state, or indeed not even a criticism of the practices of the Israeli state, but in fact an attempt to blame something on Israel which they had no part in. That's certainly a conspiracy theory, and arguably has a whiff of anti-semitism about it.
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by KeithW »

The Israeli security services train in 'Krav Maga', a martial art developed for them. It's a very violent form of combat and the neck is a perfectly legitimate target.

Whether of not Israeli Krav Maga instructors have trained US police, I don't know, but I fail to see why it should be unlikely. What next, Japanese Karate instructors? Chinese Kung Fu instructors?
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by cnb »

Pooneil wrote: 26 Jun 2020 16:34 It would seem that the kneeling on the neck procedure is not used y the Israeli secret service, and they didn't train the Minneapolis police, so the piece in the article was not simply a criticism of the practices of the Israeli state, or indeed not even a criticism of the practices of the Israeli state, but in fact an attempt to blame something on Israel which they had no part in. That's certainly a conspiracy theory, and arguably has a whiff of anti-semitism about it.
Indeed. As Frank Black noted earlier, there are plenty of real problems with the Israeli administration - there's no need to make them up, and making them up is a really bad idea if you're a senior member of a party that's being torn apart by accusations of antisemitism.

However, there's a subtlety that's being missed both in this thread and in many of the press reports. Long-Bailey wasn't sacked because she tweeted a link to that article, she was sacked because she refused to delete that tweet after the problem was pointed out. It doesn't really matter what the content of the tweet or the article was, if the leader felt that it brought the shadow cabinet into disrepute, then she should have deleted it and found another way to get her point across.
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Re: The silly politics thread

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KeithW wrote: 26 Jun 2020 17:18 The Israeli security services train in 'Krav Maga', a martial art developed for them. It's a very violent form of combat and the neck is a perfectly legitimate target.
All military and police forces train in hand-to-hand combat for self defence. Krav Maga is more offensive than the training most would get in the UK - it's intended for fighting off someone who's trying to kill you, rather than just trying to run away. American police are more often at risk of death from armed suspects, and suspects who fear the police'sown arms, and Krav Maga probably makes more sense there than here. Whether they received Krav Maga training isn't really the point though, the point is whether neck restraint was taught as a suitable method for restraining a suspect who posed no threat.
KeithW wrote: 26 Jun 2020 17:18 Whether of not Israeli Krav Maga instructors have trained US police, I don't know, but I fail to see why it should be unlikely. What next, Japanese Karate instructors? Chinese Kung Fu instructors?
Plenty of news organisations have looked into this in the last couple of days. It would appear that Minneapolis Police did receive some training from Israelis, but nobody - even the likes of Amnesty - has any evidence to support the specific claim about what was taught. More importantly, the only evidence of Israeli training is fairly recent - from 2015 and 2016, yet neck-based restraint techniques are in the police manuals from much longer ago, so would appear to be 'home grown'.
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Mayfield »

I think Keir Starmer needs to clarify the reason RLB was sacked. Pdq because it seems we are in dangerous territory if criticising another nation and it’s government is forbidden .
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Re: The silly politics thread

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Mayfield wrote: 26 Jun 2020 18:20 I think Keir Starmer needs to clarify the reason RLB was sacked. Pdq because it seems we are in dangerous territory if criticising another nation and it’s government is forbidden .
This is exactly the problem. If she has criticised Israel directly, and the criticism was legitimate (in the sense that what she complained about was actually true), then there would be a reasonable concern about the party's policy.
She didn't criticise Israel, though.
She endorsed someone else - not just what they'd said in the linked article, but the whole person (who is not a Labour MP and outside Starmer's ability to investigate or sanction). In the article, that person criticised an American police force, and used a lie about Israel alongside that criticism. The criticism of the Minneapolis police would have been exactly the same whether they were trained by other Americans, Israelis, Brits, or Martians - the mention of Israel didn't need to be there to make the point. A lie about Israel that's irrelevant to the point being made gives off a strong smell of antisemitism, and was a legitimate reason for him to ask Long-Bailey to delete her endorsement of it and its author.
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Pooneil »

Mayfield wrote: 26 Jun 2020 18:20 I think Keir Starmer needs to clarify the reason RLB was sacked. Pdq because it seems we are in dangerous territory if criticising another nation and it’s government is forbidden .
As cnb has pointed out (and as I was aware), the reason he sacked her was because he asked her to take something down and she refused. His opinion was that it was anti-semitic, or at least could be perceived as such. She might disagree with that, but it's pretty much a condition of being in the cabinet, real or shadow, that you have to follow the leader's instructions, or resign or be sacked.

Now we can have a debate about whether the post was anti-semitic, or repeated something anti-semitic, or whatever, but that's rather a sideshow. A cabinet runs under rules and collective responsibility, and you either follow orders or you're out. She didn't, so off she trots. I have no problem with that, and the question of anti-semitism is to an extent moot. If he'd have said that the entire shadow cabinet had to turn up for a (socially-distanced) photoshoot wearing entirely emerald green, and she turned up in turquoise and yellow, he'd equally have been justified in sacking her. (And I'd have been perfectly happy if she had resigned because she didn't agree with the order to take it down, or the order to wear emerald green.) But if the order is do X, then you either do X or leave the team. Now I may question whether doing X was a smart or necessary thing, but I'm entirely OK with sacking somebody on your team that doesn't follow orders.
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Re: The silly politics thread

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Mayfield wrote: 26 Jun 2020 18:20 I think Keir Starmer needs to clarify the reason RLB was sacked. Pdq because it seems we are in dangerous territory if criticising another nation and it’s government is forbidden .
Well let's put it this way, had the training for the US police been provided by 'German Security Services' then clearly it couldn't be anti-Semitic because Germany obviously isn't a Jewish state. Similarly, It wouldn't even be racist, it would simply be an observable 'fact' that could subsequently be confirmed or dismissed.

Yet to howl 'trope' simply because someone (i.e. the original author) had the temerity to criticise a state I personally believe to be racist in its construction, stretches credulity to say the very least.

The new caretakers at the 'Labour Party Inn' have self evidently decided that arguments over what is or isn't anti-semitic are not only destructive they inhibit Labour's path back to power.

One way of addressing this issue of course is to determine that anything anti-Israel is always anti-Semitic. And if the 'lefties' - that Kier pretended to be on the side of when running for leader - decide to bugger off and start another party, well that's even better, as Kier would see it.

Given the mob rule that passes for what is political discourse nowadays, Kier might as well go the whole hog and bring in Rachel Riley as his 'Diversity Advisor' :-)
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Frank Blank »

Admittedly not scientific but, (a big but) if this is a microcosm of the 'Red Wall' then Kier Starmer may have a bigger job than I originally thought.

Few, if any in this Government have emerged well out of this crisis- the one exception being Sunak, who I think is going to be a star, even if he may not be one at present.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... e-red-wall
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Mayfield »

Article in the 'i' also says how Sunak could be potential leader material ....of course so far he's had the better news to give, theres the Autumn statement to come yet which may be problematic...,but on the whole he seems to be doing pretty well 🙂
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by KeithW »

How come he can shake the Magic Money Tree? We were told that didn't exist.
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Mayfield »

Cheap borrowing....but even so it will probably take forever to pay back...
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Pooneil »

Mayfield wrote: 09 Jul 2020 20:28Cheap borrowing....but even so it will probably take forever to pay back...
No doubt somebody thinks that since we've paid off the World War II debt, the World War I debt and the slave traders' debt, we've probably got some scope to repay something else...
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Frank Blank »

Given the title of this thread, probably best to put this in here. From deepest darkest demented Massachusetts.

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Re: The silly politics thread

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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Frank Blank »

Not sure what the ramifications are for 'Countdown' . Maybe they already have rules in place.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/09/us/s ... index.html
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by mikejee »

Does that mean I cannot use Etonian or Harrovian . Cannot think of a much worse slur than calling someone that, unless it was politician
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Frank Blank »

The woke cadres haven't provided official guidance yet.
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Frank Blank »

Excellent letter to the buffoon de Blasio. :roflol3: :roflol3:

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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Mayfield »

Do Boris and Gove ever talk to each other ?

Any chance they could make up their minds re masks ?

🙄
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Mayfield »

Looks as if they have decided 🙄
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by Frank Blank »

Well thank God they haven't included pubs. I wouldn't have put it past them to insist on special masks allowing for straws to be used.
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Re: The silly politics thread

Post by KeithW »

Frank Blank wrote: 13 Jul 2020 23:31 Well thank God they haven't included pubs. I wouldn't have put it past them to insist on special masks allowing for straws to be used.
Yes, just like insects using their proboscises to suck lager from a glass; add a pair of goggles and the image is complete.

Enforced by SWAT teams, of course.
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