The Brexit Effect.

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OLDMAN
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by OLDMAN »

chris_j_wood wrote: 17 Jun 2021 11:42
OLDMAN wrote: 17 Jun 2021 07:27 TBH we’ve only ever bought British meat so no worry for us as not changing
That is fine until we do our trade deal with US.

US trade deals usually include clauses to limit country of origin labelling, which they describe as "unjustified trade restrictions or unjustified commercial requirements (including unjustified labeling)". If that comes in you will have little way of knowing whether the meat you buy is British or not.
Voiceoftreason? wrote: 17 Jun 2021 10:45 I buy meat that i believe is reared to good standards.
You will probably still be ok provided you buy directly from the farmer who raised and slaughtered the animal. But, without origin labelling, as soon as you put any kind of distribution chain in the way your belief becomes no more than a wild guess.

Reference: https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/06/wh ... rade-deal/
If its not labelled with the source I don't buy it
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by MickEdge »

Voiceoftreason? wrote: 17 Jun 2021 10:45 Mick - do you ever wonder that if foreign workers were interested in more than making money, that they would have applied for citizenship and stayed to make a life here rather than return? Perhaps they could have been sponsored by their employers if they were so keen to keep them. Even, and here’s a more radical idea - maybe employers should pay a wage that means uk workers can live in it, rather than cheap labour.
Raising the employment conditions of those in low skill and unsavoury work is laudable, whether they are British or not, and If it happens an unexpected Brexit benefit. Not all migrant workers want to set up home here, although I’m sure many have. Do we really want to encourage them all to settle, probably not.

There are moral questions about Lithuanians working long hours in Lincolnshire fields, but it was how the economy worked, prior to Brexit. We benefited from migrant cheap labour, keeping prices low and filling gaps, because unemployment was low.

That’s mostly all gone, so like it or not we will probably be paying more or having to rely more on imported food, although it seems we won’t know it’s imported. I’m not sure I can be bothered to tag the bull in the field down the road, so I know when it’s rump appears in my local butcher.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

No idea what your least paragraph meant

But anyway - sounds like those that made their money and decided to go home did so, those that didn’t stayed. That would have happened regardless of Brexit. No body forces anyone to work in fields - oh wait, aside from the lookeylikies that is, they seem partial to that kind of thing.

Seems t have been overlooked, but there is a ready made cheap labour force at hand, for anyone with the cojones to try to implement it. The numbers of working age fit looking men, paddling across the sea having passed up the opportunity to settle in that other land mass - whassit called? Oh yeah, Europe - would make a sizeable field workforce. If they’re so keen to get here for ‘economic reasons’ they should be put to work on the land whilst their claims go through and/or they find a job, rather than loaf about in centres. Of course, you’d need to bus them there and back, and employ guards to keep an eye on them, just in case any of the choir boys decided to have it away in their toes instead. There you go, land workforce problem solved AND security jobs created. Twofer.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by windrush »

We dont buy meat so it doesn't affect us really, however a few farmers that I know from various forums only buy New Zealand lamb as it is generally cheaper than 'home grown' plus they think it tastes much better. I have never eaten lamb so can't comment on that.

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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Pooneil »

Voiceoftreason? wrote: 17 Jun 2021 15:49 No idea what your least paragraph meant

But anyway - sounds like those that made their money and decided to go home did so, those that didn’t stayed. That would have happened regardless of Brexit. No body forces anyone to work in fields - oh wait, aside from the lookeylikies that is, they seem partial to that kind of thing.

Seems t have been overlooked, but there is a ready made cheap labour force at hand, for anyone with the cojones to try to implement it. The numbers of working age fit looking men, paddling across the sea having passed up the opportunity to settle in that other land mass - whassit called? Oh yeah, Europe - would make a sizeable field workforce. If they’re so keen to get here for ‘economic reasons’ they should be put to work on the land whilst their claims go through and/or they find a job, rather than loaf about in centres. Of course, you’d need to bus them there and back, and employ guards to keep an eye on them, just in case any of the choir boys decided to have it away in their toes instead. There you go, land workforce problem solved AND security jobs created. Twofer.
You would also need to change the law.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

Nothing to say that can’t be done Poo.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by MickEdge »

Whether you like it or not, prior to Brexit, the economy grew and the country benefited from cheap migrant labour. Some of them wanted to stay and some didn’t. Brexit has closed and in some cases reversed that avenue for growth, so another way has to be found. However, what seems to be happening, at least in the food industry and worryingly may occur elsewhere, is that new trade deals will make it much harder for domestic industries and service suppliers to survive. I’d like to think it will make U.K. stronger, but I suspect the successes will be mainly in the south east and ironically the City of London.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by THC »

The working class people whose wages were eroded absolutely did not benefit from cheap migrant labour.

And why do you think that it is ok to exploit migrants by underpaying them? The EU is just a neo-liberal trading bloc to benefit the bosses, sounds like you were one of them!
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Mayfield »

I think we are getting worked up about nothing re meat from Australia, there’s have no over supply, it goes to Asia where they get good money for it, so hill farmers etc can rest easy…

The danger is that it’s just an example of how low deal makers can go.

FWIW I buy chicken and sometimes meat from Cowdery’s in Cookham who have a web site telling you where it comes from and they are probably not alone . Other meat comes from eith Waitrose or sometimes Aldi, and both make great play of buying British .
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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Mayfield wrote: 18 Jun 2021 09:55 I think we are getting worked up about nothing re meat from Australia, there’s have no over supply, it goes to Asia where they get good money for it, so hill farmers etc can rest easy…

The danger is that it’s just an example of how low deal makers can go.

FWIW I buy chicken and sometimes meat from Cowdery’s in Cookham who have a web site telling you where it comes from and they are probably not alone . Other meat comes from eith Waitrose or sometimes Aldi, and both make great play of buying British .
Australia may have no significant over-supply at present, but what's to stop them increasing their output to take advantage of this new market opportunity?
And are you going to ask about the provenance of the food every time you eat out?
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

Would we not also seek to increase output to take advantage of a new market opportunity, Poo? Though that’s what trade and business was.

For the amount of times I eat out, less than twice a year at present, I can ask origin if I want but again, some places either put it on the menu and/or as Mayfield says, aren’t backwards in coming forwards saying it’s British. If I don’t like where it comes from, I don’t habe it. Simples 😁
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Mayfield »

Quite - usually lamb, which is the meat I eat most often out as OH isn’t keen, is often labelled as being Welsh or English etc…, but then we tend not to eat at ‘chains’….
As I have said before we usually give very cheap ‘deals’ a miss - because often you have no idea where it’s come from .
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 18 Jun 2021 10:57 Would we not also seek to increase output to take advantage of a new market opportunity, Poo? Though that’s what trade and business was.
Except that most British livestock farming is relatively small scale and won't be able to benefit from all the economies of scale of vast Australian farms. Plus since we have to produce meat with all the expensive animal welfare measures in place, that also increases our costs. There may be a small market for British meat over there, but it will be very expensive compared to the local stuff. Going to sell stuff into a marketplace where all your competition is significantly cheaper than you isn't much of a market opportunity.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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You can’t force people to buy what they don’t want - if they don’t want to buy what either is, or what they perceive to be lower quality/lower animal welfare meat, they won’t. If their main driver is cost, not quality, they won’t care where the meat is sourced.

There will always be a market for first quality/higher welfare produce. If that is the him market, all to the good. If the export market is too small to make a profit then they will concentrate on the domestic market. Basically, crap imported cheap low animal care meat, vs good quality good welfare, tasty British stuff. No brainier really isn’t it.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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THC wrote: 18 Jun 2021 09:16 The working class people whose wages were eroded absolutely did not benefit from cheap migrant labour.

And why do you think that it is ok to exploit migrants by underpaying them? The EU is just a neo-liberal trading bloc to benefit the bosses, sounds like you were one of them!
I don’t think it is ok to exploit migrants, I’m just saying that’s what happened. Not much different to garment sweat shops in the Asia, which we also benefit from, even though many of us are uncomfortable about it.

I’m not convinced that jobs very few British citizens want to do, had much of an impact on wage levels in other industries. Although the gig economy as a whole may have done. If low wages had been a big enough issue, Corbyn would now be in Downing St. And for the record, I don’t regard myself as an advocate of neo-liberalism and I’m not a boss.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Frank Blank »

Looks like the mad cat lady remains in denial. Still, when you have the luxury of mugs prepared to crowdfund this nonsense, it makes life rather easier. How many more law firms will she end up going through?

https://order-order.com/2021/06/18/caro ... tion-case/
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 18 Jun 2021 13:06 You can’t force people to buy what they don’t want - if they don’t want to buy what either is, or what they perceive to be lower quality/lower animal welfare meat, they won’t. If their main driver is cost, not quality, they won’t care where the meat is sourced.

There will always be a market for first quality/higher welfare produce. If that is the him market, all to the good. If the export market is too small to make a profit then they will concentrate on the domestic market. Basically, crap imported cheap low animal care meat, vs good quality good welfare, tasty British stuff. No brainier really isn’t it.
It would appear the government can’t force shops to sell it (never mind eat it) no matter what the deal
I noticed a few of the larger stores are saying they won’t sell it and will stay with British sourced meats
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by dave m »

The whole imported meat thing is easy to avoid if you use a "better" supplier, most supermarkets will be happy to use "British" on the packaging. But cheaper ones may be happy to just use a description of "lamb, beef etc"
It's prepared meals and catering that would be market driven to buy it
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Mayfield »

Dave, the Australians are already saying if we get any Australian meat it’s going to be a ‘premium product’ so not likely to worry your frozen spaghetti Bol or ready made shepherds pie…
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

I’d like to try kangaroo and ostrich meats. The Junior Voices say it’s pretty lean. Aligator is meant to be fishy, apparently.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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Voiceoftreason? wrote: 21 Jun 2021 09:37I’d like to try kangaroo and ostrich meats. The Junior Voices say it’s pretty lean. Aligator is meant to be fishy, apparently.
I remember Tescos selling ostrich, kangaroo and possibly crocodile for a period about 20 years ago. I seem to recall they were quite pleasant.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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Mayfield wrote: 21 Jun 2021 09:29Dave, the Australians are already saying if we get any Australian meat it’s going to be a ‘premium product’ so not likely to worry your frozen spaghetti Bol or ready made shepherds pie…
Given the concerns already expressed about the deal, I'd hardly expect the Aussies to be saying they're going to send us a load of rank stinkers. And whilst at least some supermarkets won't sell it, I do wonder what the late night and tipsy kebab/burger/chicken munchers will be chowing down on...
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Mayfield »

I’ve wondered what they were eating anyway - without any Australian input 🙄
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by chris_j_wood »

Mayfield wrote: 21 Jun 2021 09:29 Dave, the Australians are already saying if we get any Australian meat it’s going to be a ‘premium product’ so not likely to worry your frozen spaghetti Bol or ready made shepherds pie…
If you have ever seen Australian cattle, you might wonder about that statement. Cattle are not indigenous to Australia. Their cattle stations are enormous, but that is because the interior is so arid, and each animal needs acres (square miles, possibly) in order to eke a life. Difficult to see animals living like that producing a premium product.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Frank Blank »

LOL, I did chuckle at this. I guess we're not European enough. Bless 'em :roflol3:

"The European Commission has been tasked with launching an impact study on the risk to the EU’s “cultural diversity” from British programming, which diplomatic sources said would be a first step towards action to limit the privileges granted to UK content"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... own-brexit
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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Pooneil wrote: 21 Jun 2021 10:07
Voiceoftreason? wrote: 21 Jun 2021 09:37I’d like to try kangaroo and ostrich meats. The Junior Voices say it’s pretty lean. Aligator is meant to be fishy, apparently.
I remember Tescos selling ostrich, kangaroo and possibly crocodile for a period about 20 years ago. I seem to recall they were quite pleasant.
Had an ostrich burger, which I recall was good, and gator nuggets, which were not unlike chicken, but then that’s what they fed them on. My youngest Edge stopped eating the meal, when I said what it was.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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Frank Blank wrote: 21 Jun 2021 15:58 LOL, I did chuckle at this. I guess we're not European enough. Bless 'em :roflol3:

"The European Commission has been tasked with launching an impact study on the risk to the EU’s “cultural diversity” from British programming, which diplomatic sources said would be a first step towards action to limit the privileges granted to UK content"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... own-brexit
Would be funny, but probably not LOL, if it wasn’t the same as we’ve done by leaving the EU. Isolating ourselves and culture from those strange continentals, who can’t speak proper English and only understand if we raise our voices. Subtitles to the lot of them.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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MickEdge wrote: 21 Jun 2021 16:59
Frank Blank wrote: 21 Jun 2021 15:58 LOL, I did chuckle at this. I guess we're not European enough. Bless 'em :roflol3:

"The European Commission has been tasked with launching an impact study on the risk to the EU’s “cultural diversity” from British programming, which diplomatic sources said would be a first step towards action to limit the privileges granted to UK content"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... own-brexit
Would be funny, but probably not LOL, if it wasn’t the same as we’ve done by leaving the EU. Isolating ourselves and culture from those strange continentals, who can’t speak proper English and only understand if we raise our voices. Subtitles to the lot of them.
As has already been pointed out, the move probably has more legal holes in it than a Swiss cheese.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Frank Blank »

Looks as if the Remoaners have lost in court yet again. Fair play for their persistence though. But in this era of 'cancel culture' it's one piece of history they won't be able to re-write. :-)

"The high court was told on Tuesday that the UK was a “top target” for Russian influence operations. There was “strong prima facie” evidence that Russia had interfered on the side of leave in the 2016 Brexit vote – and subsequently in the 2017 and 2019 general elections.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/ju ... judge-says
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by dave m »

I don't see why you should report this with glee, no matter what side of the Brexit argument you are on?
The government's own first national security advisor said that it should be investigated. The Government argue that there "is no evidence of a successful " attempt. Surely the point of an investigation is to look for that evidence?

Assuming that because the campaign concerned Brexit means that it's a "good thing" or a "bad thing" is naive - what if there was a campaign to leave NATO? Or disband the NHS? Any foreign government might have a very good reason to interfere or influence a legitimate campaign. But if we don't look, it smacks of the "nothing to see" mantra of Johnston's entire career
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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dave m wrote: 23 Jun 2021 09:16I don't see why you should report this with glee, no matter what side of the Brexit argument you are on?
The government's own first national security advisor said that it should be investigated. The Government argue that there "is no evidence of a successful " attempt.
What a shame we didn't have BoJo in 1940 - after all, there was no evidence of a successful attempt to invade England, so clearly we had nothing to actually worry about and could have spent the next few years actually enjoying ourselves instead of fighting Nazis...
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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Not to mention Boris' announced intention last week to strip the Electoral Commission of the power to prosecute law-breaking; ministers have announced that a new Elections Bill will remove its ability to prosecute criminal offences under electoral law – arguing it “wastes public money”.

In other words, the independent body specifically charged with making sure that elections are run freely and fairly will have no power to do anything if they aren't. Basically we're going to be a banana republic without the bananas...
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by mikejee »

Pooneil wrote: 23 Jun 2021 11:45 In other words, the independent body specifically charged with making sure that elections are run freely and fairly will have no power to do anything if they aren't. Basically we're going to be a banana republic without the bananas...
And the Tories say there is no Russian influence in this country? Sounds like they are using the same tactics
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by chris_j_wood »

And another interesting consequence of Brexit. Less democracy. Who could possibly have predicted it. Still I'm sure Putin loves it.

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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by THC »

5 glorious years

I’d like to see the 4th Friday in June become a bank holiday, in commemoration of our day of freedom from the EU, our version of Independence Day, maybe we could call it UKID? Or St Nigel’s day?

Replace May Day which is too close to Easter.
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