The Brexit Effect.

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buseng
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The Brexit Effect.

Post by buseng »

Looks like Brexit is starting to take a hold in the UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37637954
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-10-12/is-t ... s-to-come/

Also noticed that fuel prices have risen steadily over the last few days. Another effect?

The phrase "I told you so" springs to mind.
Looks like the thin end of the wedge.
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lizwing
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by lizwing »

We haven't left yet as the Remain camp is keen to point out when things seemed to be going well.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Pooneil »

buseng wrote: Also noticed that fuel prices have risen steadily over the last few days. Another effect?
Yes - crude oil, the source of fuel is priced in US dollars on world markets. With the pound having slumped against the dollar, well, since the referendum, but certainly in the last week or so, a barrel of Brent crude at $52 was about £39.40 4 weeks ago is now more like £42.68, which is an 8.3% hike. Of course much of the price of fuel is fixed rate duty, so an 8.3% increase in raw material cost won't (or at least, shouldn't) lead to that size of price hike in the finished product, but it will push fuel prices up.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Pooneil »

lizwing wrote:We haven't left yet as the Remain camp is keen to point out when things seemed to be going well.
Nothing's really gone that well since the referendum. The point that we haven't left yet is that this is just the small rumblings before a possibly bigger 'quake.
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savagethegoat

Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by savagethegoat »

anyone planning a holiday? We had a break in the UK recently, very cheap for us.
Bushwhacker

Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bushwhacker »

The government still appears to have no plan but the rhetoric is getting shriller by the day. Mrs May appears to be dispensing policy on the hoof. Tesco are running out of Marmite. Costs for a trip to the Costas soar. Heaven Forfend!

The government's proposed use of Royal Prerogative to unleash Ariticle 50 is being questioned in the Commons, by leading academics and also in a legal challenge to the right to begin the official process of Brexit without parliamentary approval, due to get under way today before 3 of Britain's most senior judges.

A quick pull of the Article 50 trigger is unlikely to be feasible under the UK’s constitutional arrangements and may well not be desirable for any UK Government or Parliament, even one committed to eventual withdrawal from the EU.

N. Barber, T. Hickman and J. King, ‘Pulling the Article 50 ‘Trigger’: Parliament’s Indispensable Role’,

The grass roots Brexit camp are split. Hard or soft, repeal of all EU laws or broad maintenance of the status quo. It is also likely that the working people who voted for Brexit will be the most damaged by its effects. >840K jobs in the motor industry are less secure now than 100 days ago for example. I would also question whether the rights which have been won through Europe, particularly those of women and minorities, will remain.

For those extreme Brexiteers who advocate a return to the lb and oz, rod pole or perch and even £ s d, do they also expect women to resume their place at home and quit professional life?

As lizwing says above "We haven't left yet as the Remain camp is keen to point out when things seemed to be going well."

If this is the preamble, then the actual process is likely to be challenging indeed.
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Bannock
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bannock »

This will be the 'short term pain' which the Brexit lobby were so keen to inflict upon us for our own good and long-term benefit.

Enjoy, everybody. I'm sure those good times are just around the corner, slathered in Andrea Leadsom's Fine British Jam (tomorrow).
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piwacket
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by piwacket »

Good grief!
It seems to be that some are talking as though the EU was a lovely family home with welcoming arms and endless comforts and money whenever - and like many youngsters who decide to leave and live their own life, the UK is being warned of the dreadful pitfalls of what could happen in that big wide world :?
Unlike that youngster though, the U.K. wasn't born in 1973 and rather than the EU being that loving home it was more like the disfunctional group of untrustworthy idlers and feckless wheeler-dealers who were the next door neighbours.....forever inviting others like themselves to join them and trying to impose their way of life on everyone else in the road. This group's appointed Leaders had begun to infer that any other way of living outside of theirs would be "difficult - unless" .... it was time to get away before being caught up in the inevitable implosion and fall out.....
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lizwing
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by lizwing »

:clap3:
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

:goodposting:
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Bannock
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bannock »

What a horrible, nasty, vindictive, misguided, prejudiced opinion, piwacket.

That is really the attitude of a narrow minded, bitter old misanthrope. Everything wrong with the world is foreigners and 'young' people. Tchah.

I had no idea the country harboured such nonsense until being recently disabused of this notion by the appalling consequences and shift in national narrative which the referendum result produced. My country is going to the dogs. The slough of intolerant, anti-democratic and xenophobic language being employed in the press nowadays, at will, is sickening and revolting in the extreme. This new reality feels like I'm in some kind of alternate, hellish timeline of reality and I can only hope that given time we will moderate ourselves naturally back to the centre ground and marginalise once again the voices of division, hatred and nationalism.

Yesterday we had the Daily Express freely publishing editorial comment which called for the imprisonment of political opponents to 'Brexit'. When this kind of thing stands unchallenged and accepted we truly are witnessing the collapse of our hard won freedoms and the tolerant, plural, open, democratic society the majority of use want to see.

This is the most important and damaging Brexit effect. The legitimisation of anti-foreigner and nationalist rhetoric, the demonisation of anyone with contrary opinion, the abuse of the young by the old. The atmosphere has turned poisonous and I for one will stand up and call it out whenever and wherever I see it. I want my country back.
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

So Bannock, can we expect an invitation for asylum seekers to lodge at your place then a la Lilly 'pardon me whilst I presume to speak for the Country' Allen and her ilk? A lot of people voted to leave precisely because they felt the country was going to the dogs. Like it or not, the votes were cast and we're leaving.
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Bannock
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bannock »

Who said anything about asylum seekers? Is that really your biggest gripe about the EU? I'm not sure we get that many asylum applications from EU citizens, although there are some from Roma minorities in places like Slovakia and Romania of course.

Leaving we may be (as yet unconfirmed), but I'm not sure many people like you are going to be too pleased with the shape of it, if it happens.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by piwacket »

Bannock wrote:What a horrible, nasty, vindictive, misguided, prejudiced opinion, piwacket.

That is really the attitude of a narrow minded, bitter old misanthrope. Everything wrong with the world is foreigners and 'young' people. Tchah.
Really? I think you read into my comment what you wanted to! I said nothing derogatory about foreigners or young people - you must be very fortunate if you've never had some neighbours who you dearly wished had not moved into the neighbourhood with their questionable habits and disregard and lack of consideration for other's way of life. As for young people - again you misread me! I was one of those that moved out at 18 to make my own way and to be honest, rarely looked back - No! I'm not bitter, old or a misanthrope, but how would you know - we've never met - maybe the boot's on the other foot :whistle1:
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bushwhacker »

piwacket wrote:Good grief!
It seems to be that some are talking as though the EU was a lovely family home with welcoming arms and endless comforts and money whenever - and like many youngsters who decide to leave and live their own life, the UK is being warned of the dreadful pitfalls of what could happen in that big wide world :?
-
There is so much more to this issue. Goalposts have moved since our youth Pi. It's not only Europe but also globalisation, the rise of China and India as economic players, the re-emergence of Russia and many other factors which shape the world today. Britain alone is a small entity on edge of the North Atlantic. Our strength is in the financial and services sector, but unless we can find a way to continue processing the current volume of Euro based transactions in the City, Frankfurt, Paris and even Dublin are waiting for the spoils. Where then, the oft touted mantle, "World's 5th largest economy"?


Nor is this a game of football or a playground scrap. The widely bandied notion that Remainers are sore losers is at the very least banal. Where lies the harm in wanting the best possible deal for Britiain? If we must leave and in my opinion, to jump ship from the world's largest free trading bloc without guarantees and future trade agreements is suicide, then our democratically elected parliament has the right to scrutinise and vote on the matter of the leaving.

I personally do not seek to remain at any cost, but I do want to preserve the role of a sovereign parliament, one that predates the EU by centuries
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chris_j_wood
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by chris_j_wood »

Interesting cameo on the bus this morning. As some of you know, I regularly catch the 19 from town to Earley Gate, and that route has a fair number of regulars of a certain age. This morning a couple of elderly ladies were chatting across the aisle, and it turns out one of them has family in the US who she used to visit 'when she could still fly'. From there the subject got on to whether she could still afford it, and hence to the dollar exchange rate.

At which point her friend turned round and said "I think we have made the most awful mistake", and lady one said "I know". Never known either of them discuss politics before, and you could tell from the hesitancy in their voices that they weren't used to doing it. But there was no doubt what they meant. Just saying.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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Bannock wrote: Yesterday we had the Daily Express freely publishing editorial comment which called for the imprisonment of political opponents to 'Brexit'. When this kind of thing stands unchallenged and accepted we truly are witnessing the collapse of our hard won freedoms and the tolerant, plural, open, democratic society the majority of use want to see.

This. If a major national newspaper thinks that the taking of political prisoners is acceptable in the United Kingdom, then this country is in serious trouble.

We need reminding that 48.1% of the votes cast in the referendum were for Remain, so the majority for Leave was not as overwhelming as some now seek to portray it. Also it is worth pointing out that a majority of the MPs sitting in the House of Commons supported Remain, including our current Prime Minister.
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Bannock
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bannock »

piwacket wrote:
Bannock wrote:What a horrible, nasty, vindictive, misguided, prejudiced opinion, piwacket.

That is really the attitude of a narrow minded, bitter old misanthrope. Everything wrong with the world is foreigners and 'young' people. Tchah.
Really? I think you read into my comment what you wanted to! I said nothing derogatory about foreigners or young people - you must be very fortunate if you've never had some neighbours who you dearly wished had not moved into the neighbourhood with their questionable habits and disregard and lack of consideration for other's way of life. As for young people - again you misread me! I was one of those that moved out at 18 to make my own way and to be honest, rarely looked back - No! I'm not bitter, old or a misanthrope, but how would you know - we've never met - maybe the boot's on the other foot :whistle1:
So you're now making guarded derogatory comments about neighbours with questionable habits - do you mean foreigners or British people? I've had some scruffy, inconsiderate, noisy people move in next to me all right as well. All English, and white.

How self righteous you sound. I was out on my own at 18, but what the hell has that got to do with anything? The current younger generation seem to me to be hard working, polite, and academically successful, and they realise they're going to have to do damned well and work flaming hard if they're going to be able to afford to leave home - unlike your generation and mine. Yet you still want to gripe and grouse about them. You really sound like you've got no idea how the world has changed in the last 30 years and want to wind it back about 60.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bushwhacker »

wirewiper wrote:
Bannock wrote: Yesterday we had the Daily Express freely publishing editorial comment which called for the imprisonment of political opponents to 'Brexit'. When this kind of thing stands unchallenged and accepted we truly are witnessing the collapse of our hard won freedoms and the tolerant, plural, open, democratic society the majority of use want to see.
If a major national newspaper thinks that the taking of political prisoners is acceptable in the United Kingdom, then this country is in serious trouble.
All covered in the Founding Treaty of the EU :-)

Good article here
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/dai ... 57591.html
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Avis »

wirewiper wrote:
Bannock wrote: Yesterday we had the Daily Express freely publishing editorial comment which called for the imprisonment of political opponents to 'Brexit'. When this kind of thing stands unchallenged and accepted we truly are witnessing the collapse of our hard won freedoms and the tolerant, plural, open, democratic society the majority of use want to see.

This. If a major national newspaper thinks that the taking of political prisoners is acceptable in the United Kingdom, then this country is in serious trouble.

We need reminding that 48.1% of the votes cast in the referendum were for Remain, so the majority for Leave was not as overwhelming as some now seek to portray it. Also it is worth pointing out that a majority of the MPs sitting in the House of Commons supported Remain, including our current Prime Minister.
Full text of the Express editorial:

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expres ... inster-MPs

To quote: "Such snake-like treachery cannot go unpunished. Here’s what I would do with them: clap them in the Tower of London. They want to imprison us against our will in the EU so we should give them 28 days against their will to reflect on the true meaning of democracy."

There is even a helpful photograph of the Tower of London!
Bushwhacker

Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bushwhacker »

When we need gutter press like the Daily Express to police democracy, things have come to a sad pass.

Just a thought, but wasn't the referendum non binding, or purely advisory and isn't parliament a democratically elected and sovereign body?
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Bannock
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bannock »

Bushwhacker wrote:When we need gutter press like the Daily Express to police democracy, things have come to a sad pass.

Just a thought, but wasn't the referendum non binding, or purely advisory and isn't parliament a democratically elected and sovereign body?
Bingo.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Whitespirit »

Looks like I may get to keep my EU passport after all.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-37634338
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Whitespirit »

Bushwhacker wrote:When we need gutter press like the Daily Express to police democracy, things have come to a sad pass.

Just a thought, but wasn't the referendum non binding, or purely advisory and isn't parliament a democratically elected and sovereign body?
No referendum in this country is binding. All of them are purely advisory. It would be a brave government that were to reject the results though imo.
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Bannock
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bannock »

Whitespirit wrote:Looks like I may get to keep my EU passport after all.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-37634338
Yes, they may as well join the Euro now that the currencies are at parity. It's a far more stable and reliable currency now, so that argument against independence has been taken care of. Vote Leave are the true traitors, history will judge them to have precipitated the death of the UK. The situation in Ireland is likely to be of greater consequence.

Here are some other Brexit Effects from today's news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37640982
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37639518


Speaking as a person of partly Scottish descent, I was always firmly against Independence. I have changed my mind. They should go.

I'm fortunate enough to be entitled to an EU passport (as are my wife and children) from other existing EU countries also, but I am saddened and angry that my fellow British citizens who are not so fortunate will have their citizenship rights stripped from them for no good reason. I believe this is truly an abuse of human rights.
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Bannock
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bannock »

Whitespirit wrote:
Bushwhacker wrote:When we need gutter press like the Daily Express to police democracy, things have come to a sad pass.

Just a thought, but wasn't the referendum non binding, or purely advisory and isn't parliament a democratically elected and sovereign body?
No referendum in this country is binding. All of them are purely advisory. It would be a brave government that were to reject the results though imo.
Except the AV and Scottish Indy Ref 1 were binding, although only because extra conditions were inserted into the Referendum Bills to make them so. The EU Ref was not binding.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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piwacket
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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Bannock wrote: So you're now making guarded derogatory comments about neighbours with questionable habits - do you mean foreigners or British people? I've had some scruffy, inconsiderate, noisy people move in next to me all right as well. All English, and white.
No I don't mean foreigners - you're the one with a fixation about them.... on the occasions I speak of they were British!
Bannock wrote: How self righteous you sound. I was out on my own at 18, but what the hell has that got to do with anything? The current younger generation seem to me to be hard working, polite, and academically successful, and they realise they're going to have to do damned well and work flaming hard if they're going to be able to afford to leave home - unlike your generation and mine. Yet you still want to gripe and grouse about them. You really sound like you've got no idea how the world has changed in the last 30 years and want to wind it back about 60.
Self-righteous ? Its got absolutely nothing to do with anything what I did at 18. Said merely as an example of how young people can, if they have determination and a will to do well, succeed. I am not griping or grousing in any way.
I agree the young people of today will have to work hard - I did too, and doubtless you did. The notion that we had it all on a plate is quite frankly ludicrous. Buying a house was not a doddle - % interest rates in the high teens, two or three hefty recessions .... etc. etc. No easy Credit - in fact if one didn't have the money then you went without, not just use some from La-La land... maybe that was my Scottish upbringing?
I'm fully aware the goalposts (ref. Bushwhacker) have moved over the years and certainly aware of the seriousness of the intended divorce from the EU.
I also think that the idea of a Referendum, although on the face of it a ''Grand gesture'' was ill-thought out and a total lack of preparation was made by absolutely everybody for the possibility that a majority - albeit slim - would make the decision they have.
Nevertheless despite the lack of foresight of those in Westminster - our supposed representatives - that Decision should be honoured and a decent outcome achieved for us all. The behaviour of some ''in the House'' currently is IMO sheer hypocrisy and an attempt to recover their supposed credibility!
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Bannock
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bannock »

piwacket wrote:
Bannock wrote: So you're now making guarded derogatory comments about neighbours with questionable habits - do you mean foreigners or British people? I've had some scruffy, inconsiderate, noisy people move in next to me all right as well. All English, and white.
No I don't mean foreigners - you're the one with a fixation about them.... on the occasions I speak of they were British!
Then what on earth made you comment about your neighbours in a thread about the effects of Brexit? In what way was the EU causing you to have unpleasant British neighbours?
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

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Bannock wrote:Who said anything about asylum seekers? Is that really your biggest gripe about the EU? I'm not sure we get that many asylum applications from EU citizens, although there are some from Roma minorities in places like Slovakia and Romania of course.

Leaving we may be (as yet unconfirmed), but I'm not sure many people like you are going to be too pleased with the shape of it, if it happens.
First, I cast my vote and am happy with it, and even if I wasn't ITS DONE and I will live with what comes next-same as everyone.
second, no it's not my biggest gripe about the EU - it's not a single issue matter. I'm just as sure as you, that we don't have any idea whatsoever of net immigration, migration, repatriation or any other kind of 'ation', numbers or where they hail from as to who is or isn't in this Country at any one time.

Third, I'd be grateful if you didn't tell me what to be pleased or displeased with. Thank you :-)
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bannock »

The fact you even have to say 'repatriation' and list it in your possible outcomes of this shameful situation is profoundly depressing, nauseating and offensive to me on a very personal level.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

Then I suggest you take it up with whomever is responsible for any repatriation. I'm sure they'd be only too thrilled to help you.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Bannock »

I'm not entirely sure I appreciate the tone of that post.

If you are implying that you wish to see me repatriated to my place of birth, then I don't think my moving to Buckinghamshire is going to cheer you up too much.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Pooneil »

Interestingly I believe that the Tories were elected on a manifesto promise that full access to the single market would continue, irrespective of the referendum result. Given the staunch position of the EU that full access to the single market can only be granted where full freedom of movement is also granted, then the Tories were effectively elected on a manifesto promise of most definitely a soft Brexit and it would seem no restriction on migration to or from the EU. I expect to see that pledge honoured.
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Re: The Brexit Effect.

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

Not at all Bannock, I was merely suggesting a solution for you if you wish to make your feelings about that subject known, to someone who may be interested in your views. helpful like that
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