EU referendum

[Mayfield]

If more money comes through the UK than did before and we get the tax on it that is an advantage because despite this much vaunted money for the NHS if our tax receipts go down there just wont be any......

Although its true, I'd rather see jobs

PS Savage, if we start sending EU immigrants home and other countries reciprocate, might you be at risk ?

[savagethegoat]

That's fine and dandy for you, getting your affairs in order, but it's people doing that who will be doing the damage to the Economy by taking their cash and assets elsewhere.

It's the people at the bottom of the pile, who aren't able to do the same as you who will suffer most. Jobs will be lost, new jobs will not be created.

It's no wonder the Young are so mad with the Old. It's their world now and yet the Older Generations keep screwing it up for them.

Oh it's fine and dandy for me is it? Current guess (because guess is all we can do, but it is an educated guess) is that me and my former colleagues will probably see our pensions cut by half. And none of us are entitled to a state pension. "Getting my affairs in order" is a bit of a euphemism really. What I should have said is damage control.

And what ecactly did I screw up ??? I didn't vote for this mess.

Sorry, not intended to be a personal attack on you

Ironically it's many of those people who will suffer most who were duped into voting "Leave".

It is perfectly obvious that you did mean it as a personal attack. I see no other way to read it.

Oh right, so I'm saying that you will be personally to blame for all the money taken out of the economy.

"it's people doing that ..." is what I said. That isn't a personal attack.

[piwacket]

Reading T - I did put my hand in my pocket to start the first business - so don't really understand what you mean. And from that, despite paying Corp Tax, was able to fund setting up the other businesses - but, as said, decided against making them Ltd Companies.
All businesses were annually audited, with the Accounts for the 1st one being sent to Companies House.

As far as I remember (we stopped trading as a Ltd company last year) Reading T, investing in equipment is deducted before you pay Capital Gains Tax, then that equipment is 'written down' in subsequent years so that you are allowed something for the loss of value each year, before the corporation tax calculation is done.

Yes, that's how it worked Mayfield.
However, when I started there was no specific Turnover figure given as a qualification - however there was a minimum Share Capital required and a minimum of 2 Directors.... that may well have changed now of course.

[piwacket]

Yes, really. Not sure why you are confused about it.

Well I am confused because I understood that everyone who paid 'into the system' automatically received a State Pension?
. . . .

Which we did not do because we were not employed in the UK, or by a UK organisation. There are similar systems in place for people who work for other international organisations.

Ah, I hadn't realised that.
However, as I said some time ago, Government (whichever) pensions are usually 'gilt edged' so I still feel that you'll be OK

[Pooneil]

Oh it's fine and dandy for me is it? Current guess (because guess is all we can do, but it is an educated guess) is that me and my former colleagues will probably see our pensions cut by half. And none of us are entitled to a state pension. "Getting my affairs in order" is a bit of a euphemism really. What I should have said is damage control.

And what ecactly did I screw up ??? I didn't vote for this mess.

Sorry, not intended to be a personal attack on you

Ironically it's many of those people who will suffer most who were duped into voting "Leave".

It is perfectly obvious that you did mean it as a personal attack. I see no other way to read it.

Oh right, so I'm saying that you will be personally to blame for all the money taken out of the economy.

"it's people doing that ..." is what I said. That isn't a personal attack.

To be honest Mr Goat, given that the "that" in your sentence was referring to "you, getting your affairs in order,", then the implication was "it's people like you getting your affairs in order who will be doing the damage to the Economy..." and I can quite understand how that was taken as a personal attack. That's purely my own opinion, rather than any sort of moderator's edict, but I'd have to say your words did strike me as a tad accusatory, even if you didn't mean them to be.

[Pooneil]

Farage is saying he's done what he wanted politically, so he's not got anything more to aim for. If his hearts not in it, may as well go. Sounds reasonable to me - least he's not the PM jumping ship.....

Sounds reasonable? You note that he's not resigning as an MEP though, he's going to keep suckling on that teat for another couple of years whilst he "gets his life back". Given he has been absent, or refused to vote, on the majority of debates at the European Parliament, one might think that the decent thing would be for him to resign his position. Instead, he is acting as exactly the sort of thing he claims to hate about Europe – a lazy, worthless bureaucrat, sponging money out of the institution (that he claims to despise).
Utter hypocrisy.

[C8H10N4O2]

Politicians are not made from the things normal little boys or girls are made from, sugar, spice, any of that.
They're made from brimstone & treacle, much like any other gentle bully you've encountered.

[Mayfield]

Yes, really. Not sure why you are confused about it.

Well I am confused because I understood that everyone who paid 'into the system' automatically received a State Pension?
. . . .

Which we did not do because we were not employed in the UK, or by a UK organisation. There are similar systems in place for people who work for other international organisations.

Ah, I hadn't realised that.
However, as I said some time ago, Government (whichever) pensions are usually 'gilt edged' so I still feel that you'll be OK

Being just 'OK' may not be quite what Avis had in mind....OK, it might not put her on the streets but considering the situation is not of her making its pretty tough....IMHO

[Voiceoftreason?]

Sounds like Caffs got the measure of it.

[piwacket]

Being just 'OK' may not be quite what Avis had in mind....OK, it might not put her on the streets but considering the situation is not of her making its pretty tough....IMHO

I certainly did not mean to sound flippant or negative Mayfield - I was trying to be reassuring - in that I saw little room for Avis to be worrying. Admittedly I don't know the machinations of the set up of those Pensions, but just from history/others' experiences - a 'Government' pension is far more secure than any in a Private policy and not affected by market forces or whatever sleights of hand are given as excuses for falling payouts.

[maggieaitch]

Dad, newly a BEA civil pilot ex-RAF, bought our Cavvy Park early build home for under £400 (1965).
When Mum passed (just two years after Dad) it went for over £200k (2010).

Dad always said, "bricks & mortar"....

Did you leave a zero off that price ? We bought our semi in Caversham in 1965 for £5000. My father bought a brand new house in Chiltern Rd for £395 but that was in 1934 !!

[Voiceoftreason?]

Think my dad paid about £4/500 for The house in Grovelands Road. Must have been about 1958 maybe?

[OLDMAN]

My parents paid about £2000 in the 60's for theirs - now on the market at £400,000

[savagethegoat]

Sorry, not intended to be a personal attack on you

Ironically it's many of those people who will suffer most who were duped into voting "Leave".

It is perfectly obvious that you did mean it as a personal attack. I see no other way to read it.

Oh right, so I'm saying that you will be personally to blame for all the money taken out of the economy.

"it's people doing that ..." is what I said. That isn't a personal attack.

To be honest Mr Goat, given that the "that" in your sentence was referring to "you, getting your affairs in order,", then the implication was "it's people like you getting your affairs in order who will be doing the damage to the Economy..." and I can quite understand how that was taken as a personal attack. That's purely my own opinion, rather than any sort of moderator's edict, but I'd have to say your words did strike me as a tad accusatory, even if you didn't mean them to be.

you're entitled to your opinion, but please note my apology that followed.

[chris_j_wood]

And thus it starts (this from my work email this morning):

In the current UK context, we understand your company must be considering its options regarding potential expansion plans across Europe. Should Switzerland be part of your next target markets, we would like to hear from you.

The Office for Economy of the Canton of St. Gallen in Switzerland (SGBA), located at the heart of the European technology triangle (Stuttgart - Munich - Milan) assists foreign businesses in every step of their expansion into the region. N.B. All services provided are free of charge.

As you are probably already aware, operational costs in St Gallen are amongst the lowest in Switzerland (e.g. 20% lower than in Zurich) and the region is home to the world leading University of St Gallen. St Gallen has become a strategic location for companies in high-tech sectors due to the presence of numerous research and development collaborative Institutes such as the Bosch Internet of Things and Services Lab, the SAP Living Lab as well as cooperation with the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH).

If you are looking to expand your presence in Switzerland and are interested to learn more about the free and confidential services we can provide, we would be delighted to arrange a conference call at your earliest convenience as a first point of contact.

Thank you very much for your time and I look forward to hearing from you.


Kind regards,

Angelique Ziganek

Angelique Ziganek
UK Representative
Canton of St. Gallen

And they aren't even in the EU either. Cannot wait until all the other outfits get their acts in gear. Even if only 1% of the recipients act, it will still be a huge loss to the UK.

Actually I've even been to St. Gallen. Nice city, wonderful old abbey (not ruined and fenced off), good links to Zürich Airport, spending money on transport infrastructure (not just talking about it), and convenient for the mountains. Perhaps I should try and persuade my boss.

[Voiceoftreason?]

Surprised they didn't ask for your bank account details as "were willing to share a percentage of this huge sum of money we just can't bank direct in the UK, for the use of your account".

[chris_j_wood]

[chris_j_wood]

[Pooneil]

Oh lawks-a-lumme. I thought David Davis was the smart, switched-on one in the "out" crowd, hence why he got job as Brexit minister. But I've just seen some tweets on his twitter feed from 26th May (and I've checked, and amazingly they're still there) which tend to countermand that view. To combine 4 tweets into a brief paragraph (and I promise the only editing changes I've made are the addition of full stops at the end of each tweet):
"The first calling point of the UK's negotiator immediately after #Brexit will not be Brussels, it will be Berlin, to strike a deal. Post #Brexit a UK-German deal would include free access for their cars and industrial goods, in exchange for a deal on everything else. Similar deals would be reached with other key EU nations. France would want to protect £3bn of food and wine exports. Italy, its £1bn fashion exports. Poland its £3bn manufacturing exports."
Hey, Dave, the thing with the EU is that member states aren't allowed to cut individual deals with non-member states. Otherwise we could have done all those deals you blither about with the US and China ourselves without having to leave the EU. The Germans can't make a deal with the UK after Brexit as it would be illegal under EU law.

[MickEdge]

At best, Pooneil, this is just more of the shameful way the Brexit brigade manipulated opinion. In any other walk of life, I'd now be getting unsolicited calls from people offering to make a claim on my behalf. At worst, our chief negotiator is extraordinarily ill equipped to carry out his job. The Brexit guys may want to hit the ground running, but I think they'll just hit the ground - splat. The more I read about setting up trade agreements, the more I fear how any workable arrangements can be achieved, other than what we've got now. The bottom line seems to be these things are very complicated, take a long time to agree and we don't have any experienced negotiators, as we let Brussels do it for 40 years.

[mikejee]

A world where any -one, -party, -voter, -minister or whoever could think Boris Johnson is fit for anything other than a clown or sweeping the streets. Yes, the world is very messed up

[C8H10N4O2]

I think the same could be levelled at every politician, even the relatively good ones, by anyone who found themselves at odds with them on some topic or other over years, mike.
The fact is, he's there, having a hand in history, whilst we are here, merely venting ad hominem.

Though, I should probably tell myself that when I make similarly disparaging remarks about certain RBC councillors.

[Voiceoftreason?]

But aren't we fortunate to live in a country where we CAN express our feelings about politics, in (relative) safety?

[lizwing]

Amen to that VoT

[mikejee]

I would certainly agree there, and it will probably survive my lifetime. Whether it survives later lifetimes will depend on how well or stupidly the electorate vote. Violent appeals to so-called patriotism and " giving us back control" gave rise to Naziism in Germany in the 1920s-30s. The recent compendium of meaningless rubbish spouted recently, and accepted (applying to a certain extent to both sides) does not bode well here.

[Pooneil]

Yeah, we totally won't be able to do any trade or deals.

Never said we wouldn't. I merely pointed out that the man who is now in charge of overseeing Brexit was, less than two months ago, laying out his post-Brexit trade deal strategy - completely ignorant of the fact that everything he proposed was completely impossible. How chuffing marvellous is that? How much confidence would you feel if you had a new boss who came in a proposed a grand new strategy which sounded really impressive, apart from the fact it was illegal?

Which is why our premiere UK electronics firm, ARM, has just been bought by the Japanese and will double the number of jobs.

I'm not entirely sure that the purchase of one of the great modern industrial success stories of Britain by a foreign company is much to cheer about; 4,000 extra jobs seems a minor inconvenience for the new owners to worry about when they've bought such a prize.

Our nuclear industry appears to be being funded and run by the Chinese - the same people who make the keyboard, monitor, PC, chair, mouse, and chair I'm currently using.

Hardly fills me with joy either. Beyond customer satisfaction with chairs and mice being no basis for awarding contracts on potentially very dangerous and complex installations like nuclear power plants, I'm not sure I'm comfortable putting that sort of power in a country that isn't exactly a great friend of our, has a dubious record with obeying international law, is too big to boycott, or heaven help us threaten, and has some serious "insulation" if it all goes to ratsh*t - they'll be 5,000 miles from any nuclear meltdown.If you find that a situation to put gladness in your heart and a spring in your step, then so be it; I don't. I also don't see what it has to do with the ignorance of Davis either, but there we go.

My microphone was made in Australia and it appears most of the clothes I'm wearing are made in Indonesia. All of which MUST be in the EU, otherwise we couldn't do business with them, right?

Nobody ever said that. What was that you said about "massively misses the point"?...

[ReadingBiker]

The ARM deal will have nothing to do with Brexit other than their final buying price just dropped 20% (priced in $)

The due dilligence on this kind of deal takes >6mths it did not suddenly happen in the last month. Also having friends who have worked for ARM it is actually a real shame -a foreign company with tons of debt have just borrowed a pile of cash to buy a UK company from it's shareholders (some are staff/ex staff but a lot are insititutional investors so banks and funds). The UK copmpanies profits will now flow out of the UK to Japan to pay off the large debt. Yes there will be more jobs in Cambridge and that is good but it has less to do with Brexit than M&S trying to blame poor sales over the last 6 mths on the referendum

[dave m]

in the short term ARM will increase jobs

However remember the solid promises about Cadbury's when it was bought.

[chris_j_wood]

The ARM deal will have nothing to do with Brexit other than their final buying price just dropped 20% (priced in $)

The due dilligence on this kind of deal takes >6mths it did not suddenly happen in the last month. Also having friends who have worked for ARM it is actually a real shame -a foreign company with tons of debt have just borrowed a pile of cash to buy a UK company from it's shareholders (some are staff/ex staff but a lot are insititutional investors so banks and funds). The UK copmpanies profits will now flow out of the UK to Japan to pay off the large debt. Yes there will be more jobs in Cambridge and that is good but it has less to do with Brexit than M&S trying to blame poor sales over the last 6 mths on the referendum

Absolutely. The deal itself probably had little to do with brexit, but it gives a good idea of where the UK economy is likely to go post-brexit. Any intellectual capital (at least outside the financial services industry) is likely to be asset stripped by global players. I would bet that within 20 years, ARM has almost no involvement in the UK. The only mitigating factor is that it has been bought by a Japanese company, who are less gung-ho about that kind of thing than (say) US companies are. When my software house employers were bought by a US company in 1998, all development moved to Atlanta within 5 years, whilst Fujitsu is still in the final stages of destroying what used to be ICL, despite having bought it 20+ years ago.

Ok, that has been going on for years, but the presence of the UK in the full-spectrum economy of the EU tended to serve as a brake. With that gone, the transition to a specialised financial services centre will accelerate. All our best talent will either flow into that, or if it doesn't suite, head off to pastures new. The UK will transition into the city state of London, shedding some of its outer areas (Scotland?) and reducing others to low value agrarian and servicing functions (the North, Wales?).

Ironically, the people who have the most to lose from this appear to have been those who were most likely to vote for it.

[MickEdge]

Sadly, chris_j_wood, I agree that those that wanted it will suffer most. We might be the 5th largest economy, but I don't think we have enough big companies to raise the money to buy those such as ARM domestically. In the States, they have likes of Google, Microsoft, Apple etc. who can do this. So the assets stay at home. The States are also able to get away with being more protectionist, because of its size and greater self sufficiency. Planes and oil to pork bellies and wheat. As was said, it's been going on for a long time and yet we continue to prosper. Well, in my comfortable corner of the South East. As long as we ignore those who don't live in this little corner the more we will get these little, I mean big surprises. A lot think Jeremy Corbyn is unelectable. I wonder. I just hope the new chancellor has the sense to plough some money away from London. I'm not sure HS2 counts. Better to connect the big cities of the north, to give their economies sufficient momentum.

[C8H10N4O2]

Respectfully, it's the media being oh-so-quick-to-tell us, where selling copy/page-impressions and judgements comes first and foremost, and we appear to swallow it wholesale.

They are as homeless as many of us would be if (for example) Labour & Conservative contention went to a civil war.
Real bombs, real bullets, real people we know dying.
They just want to live in peace too.

The individuals that IS/Daesh have recently manipulated, wanted the same things too, at one time.
Until they met ...Whoever.

You cannot contend for such random, previously innocuous perpetrators of any crime, much less those determined to commit sudden slaughter, in the air, on the ground, or underground, and be they visitors or "home grown", or for that matter, Muslim or otherwise.

Painting with a broad brush is best confined to DIY, as they always splash the haters.

[Mayfield]

Digi, I don't see that Brexit is going to address any Muslim issues in the UK ....we have home grown terrorists plus a number who wish to come here from India and Pakistan ...how is Europe pertinent to that ...?

[MickEdge]

I am sure that many us are very concerned about the indiscriminate acts of violence that have occurred recently and sadly will continue, but I don't see how the EU is to blame. They have their roots in the turmoil in the Middle East. Calling the EU corrupt is just absurd. You may not like its decisions, but they are made by democratically elected representatives and people appointed by democratically elected national governments. Saying we should have nothing to do with the EU is naive. We can't sell up and move to Australia. We can't go it alone like Tom & Barbara in the Good Life. We are not a comedy act, even if our foreign secretary is. We have a successful economy built around selling what we are good at and buying what others are good at. To do that you have cooperate with your neighbours. You can't do that by closing the door to them. The reason people want to come here is because we have been more successful than other countries. Most people who come work hard, pay taxes and provide services we need in our economy. I do worry, as I get older, about the cultural dilution that has happened, since I was a child, and some aspects seem much less liberal and tolerant than what I believe, but I think this can be addressed, over time, through education. But I do have a particular problem with faith schools, which I think can slow or even stop this change. We are living through difficult times, partly of our own making, but mostly a reflection of world turmoil. For the moment I am hanging my hopes on our new PM, based solely on her inaugural speech. And also, I just hope the Labour Party can sort it self out and provide an electable leader and opposition to challenge the current administration.

[ReadingBiker]

How on earth will Brexit stop a SINGLE islamic plot in the uk - are you honestly proposing we ban islam, deport all muslims and refuse entry to the uk for people who put Muslim on some entry form at the border.

There is zero zilch nader nothing way we will get any kind of free trade deal with the EU without at least free movement of labour with a job offer (and likely just full stop free movement of labour) - religious discrimination is against UK law (not EU but UK law) and if we EVER repeal that we are in a really bad place

[mikejee]

Don't get me wrong, I think it's very sad that everything is made in China.
I think it's awful that ARM is being sold to the Japanese. I was merely pointing out that trade still takes place outside Europe. The world is a bigger place.

Can I put maybe a different angle on Brexit reasons? Perhaps, to some people, money isn't the very bottom line.

(Bear with me for a second while I go somewhere with this before you get all knee-jerky after the first paragraph!)

As I typed my reply yesterday,.....

Following that comment, which many will find compelling, consider this:
Roman Catholic fanacitists have murdered obstetricians because their twisted philosophy opposes women being able to have control of their body, and whose leaders insist that their followers should not use birth control and thus increase the number of their own indoctrinated sect.
Jews in the UK believe their God gives them a divine right to occupy a land they originally invaded , driving off other people. This divine right entitles them to treat Moslems who, in truth rather than fantasy, have s much right to be there as them. The Jewish community sends god knows how many millions of pounds to support the Jewish state who are quite happy to kill off people who oppose them, and make things difficult for the UK
Therefore are not Roman Catholics and Jews dangerous people who are not wanted in this country.

This is the way potentially leading to fascism . Many of the views of SOME of the Brexit campaigners are like those that won Hitler power in Germany.
Hitler was regarded by many as a clown at first. Those people later much regretted that. Two of the leading figures in the UK are similarly now regarded by many. one is now Foreign Secretary. Rejection of difference is dangerous, and I would rather that danger was not in the UK.
Much of what I write there is an exaggeration, but an exaggeration that MIGHT happen