Hermes - Major proposed development

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OLDMAN
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by OLDMAN »

:goodposting:
Oldman........

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they annoyed me........................

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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

An element isn't enough.
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Bob deBilda

Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by Bob deBilda »

bobby1413 wrote: 14 Sep 2017 12:55
Bob deBilda wrote: 14 Sep 2017 12:42 Who here would like to live in these?

Regards
Bob
Probably very few of us but what does that have to do with it?
So you wouldn't like to live there yourself, but apart from that, you like them?

Regards
Bob
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OLDMAN
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by OLDMAN »

Wouldn't like to live in them, don't like the look of them!
Oldman........

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they annoyed me........................

I hug everybody –
It’s not affection, I’m just measuring up how big a hole I need to dig for the body!
ReadingBiker
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by ReadingBiker »

Voiceoftreason? wrote: 14 Sep 2017 13:47 An element isn't enough.
Being realistic given the country's finances (and likely finances for next 10 years) there is zero chance of a magic money tree providing enough cash to carry out massive social housing schemes so they will be dependant upon enabling commercial development. Also I tend to think that one of the mistakes of the 60's was large homogenous estates of social housing, we need a more integrated mix of long term social, short term private rental and owner occupation in all areas so there are no stigmatised addresses
bobby1413

Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by bobby1413 »

Bob deBilda wrote: 14 Sep 2017 14:12
bobby1413 wrote: 14 Sep 2017 12:55
Bob deBilda wrote: 14 Sep 2017 12:42 Who here would like to live in these?

Regards
Bob
Probably very few of us but what does that have to do with it?
So you wouldn't like to live there yourself, but apart from that, you like them?

Regards
Bob

I really don't understand what you're getting at.

Yes... I like the proposed plans and no I would not want to live there.
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

OLDMAN wrote: 14 Sep 2017 14:15 Wouldn't like to live in them, don't like the look of them!
Me either. One word comes to mind. Grenfell.
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Mayfield
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

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>>>believe this is a bit of rose tinted spectacles talking - I think Windrush is probably best able to comment on what I say next given his past employment but I am led to understand that pre M4 (opened locally in 71 I think) the entire of the A4 from Suttons to Prospect park would quite regularly become totally choked and near stationary especially during the summer when all holiday traffic towards the West had to use it.<<<

I used to commute along the A4, Maidenhead to Reading...in the late 60s through the 70s it was OK, no worse than now certainly....don't forget we could drive up Kings Road then...
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

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Mayfield wrote: 14 Sep 2017 17:11 >>>believe this is a bit of rose tinted spectacles talking - I think Windrush is probably best able to comment on what I say next given his past employment but I am led to understand that pre M4 (opened locally in 71 I think) the entire of the A4 from Suttons to Prospect park would quite regularly become totally choked and near stationary especially during the summer when all holiday traffic towards the West had to use it.<<<

I used to commute along the A4, Maidenhead to Reading...in the late 60s through the 70s it was OK, no worse than now certainly....don't forget we could drive up Kings Road then...
Correct Mayfield, it could be a slow journey at peak times especially the area around London Road/Pell Street/Berkeley Avenue. I used it daily to get to work on Wolseley Street and it was a constant stream of traffic (most of it heavy vehicles) and if a lorry etc was broken down nothing moved! Every major town without a by-pass was the same then though. The M4 certainly improved things, don't know what it is like nowadays though?

Pete.
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

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I only had to get to one of the Forbury Car Parks, and walk to Broad Street or Cross Street....not too terrible but I wasn't crossing the whole town ...
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by Mayfield »

OLDMAN wrote: 14 Sep 2017 13:12 Most of the people in the blocks were we stayed where al 'short term' renters

Talking to other people it does seem that's more what these high rise places get used for these days - and its all just for profit!
Lots of flats are sold to small investors who see no hope of getting a decent return on their money in a building society or similar....
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

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Mayfield wrote: 14 Sep 2017 17:11 I used to commute along the A4, Maidenhead to Reading...in the late 60s through the 70s it was OK, no worse than now certainly....don't forget we could drive up Kings Road then...
... we could drive along many roads also in each direction.... including Broad Street/Friar Street into or out of Cross Street. Both Silver Street and Southampton Street were two-way - I had friends who lived on both, and I could park within a few yards of their houses for half an hour during the day or longer in the evenings. I lived on Berkeley Avenue - the A4 and as Pete says, the heavy vehicles were endless at times - but until the IDR was built, there were numerous routes in and out of it. During the '60s I went fairly frequently to Devon and Cornwall for holidays - I'd question whether to do it now.
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by ReadingT »

Bob deBilda wrote: 14 Sep 2017 10:47
dave m wrote: 14 Sep 2017 09:17 Actually, decking the IDR isn't a daft idea...
In the event of unrest in the west, it's quite easy to blow the bridges and flood the moat to keep the marauding Tilehurst hordes at bay, at least for a while. Decking would make that much more difficult.

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Bob
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Fed-up
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by Fed-up »

dave m wrote: 14 Sep 2017 09:17 Actually, decking the IDR isn't a daft idea- although the Chatham street plans were. There is loads of space over certain sections of the IDR to allow decking without completely roofing it in . A simple example is the Oxford road bridge area where either a plain deck could be used or buildings on stilts could frame the bridge, removing the mental barrier of the bridge . How you'd achieve this would be another matter. Cost and road closures would make it pretty hard. But as seen in London, once land values rise, almost anything is tecnically possible .
Looks like the plan has not been thrown out completely:

https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news ... ls-agenda/
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by Fed-up »

More details on the plans can be found here:

https://www.inyourarea.co.uk/news/desig ... -revealed/

and here:

https://www.readingmet.co.uk/

Town centre living has never appealed to me, but I'm sure this will be just the ticket for some people.
"Every place that I have been leaves its message on my skin. So many prophecies, so many signs, so little time, so little time" - Alan Prosser/Ian Telfer
Melchett

Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by Melchett »

"Mr Soper also confirmed an underground car park with just 80 spaces will be included in the plan".

Oh dear.
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by peterson »

I went to the exhibition last week. The designs look reasonably well thought out but I just fear it misses an opportunity to do something more significant given the proximity to the station.

See my blog for basically that point in many more words:
http://readingonthames.com/2018/11/23/r ... ng-it-out/

If the retail park next door is to be redeveloped too, as was implied by the people at the exhibition, it's a shame they couldn't have coordinated and made use of having the larger site.
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Voiceoftreason?
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

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Good blog. I loved the idea of a convention centre/arena there. Not so keen on the height of the high rise (it was ever thus) on no other grounds than it makes the site look unbalanced.

Tbh, I don’t think REP will ever get off the ground and I feel it’s time has passed. If you look at the building that has gone on in and around RTC over REPs lifespan so far, it makes REPs housing plan look somewhat superfluous.

The other plan I liked, but didn’t get passed, was the ‘glass ark’ building. The design was clever such that using so much glass helped to decrease the bulk of the structure, and it was a focal point with a real interest, rather than yet another tall. Square, building.
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

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I also went to the exhibition - I live in the shadow of the proposed development so have a particular interest.

I have no objection in principle to tall(ish) buildings on that site, but that 25-storey tower will overshadow a lot of people, particularly those that live off Vastern Road but also those of us that live off Caversham Road to a lesser degree. I'd say something no taller than, say Chatham Place (18 storeys) might win more favour with locals. My other concern is that that big block along Caversham Road would be overpowering - the illustration of it from near the fire station looks like an angle carefully chosen to flatter it. I'd suggest stepping down the blocks in Caversham Road a bit to avoid the feeling of walking alongside something rather like a battleship. The townhouses in the middle look a bit odd too, and I can't imagine how they'd be attractive to live in - I understand the idea of maintaining continuous life along the street but I'm not sure how these would function.

As for residents and infrastructure - I can see Reading heading the way the centre and northern quarter of Manchester have already gone, with the town centre area being mostly the preserve of younger people without families, so I don't think a big build of schools or surgeries will be needed. Two-bedroom flats in developments like this tend to be occupied by two young sharers rather than young families. Younger people tend to need entertainment, not schools, and on average visit the doctor less often. And there has been some school expansion nearby already - the new Civitas Academy and doubling of EP Collier (which is still taking many children from miles around), and I gather from friends that primaries in Caversham aren't getting the masses of applications they used to. We also have the proposed River Academy secondary school in Richfield Avenue opening in about 3 years. Younger people are also generally less car-dependent these days, so roads and parking may be less important.

The question that has been posed in Manchester is, not surprisingly, where all these young people will move when they get older and want to have families, and that hasn't been completely answered. The Reading area may well have to start answering the same question eventually, unless families end up being forced to get used to living in apartment blocks forever (in which case we come back to schools etc. and need to factor in better recreational facilities for families too). The nightmare scenario is where masses of people end up by default forced to live in inappropriate accommodation with inadequate infrastructure nearby, and this could easily come about without careful planning.
Last edited by Stargazer on 29 Nov 2018 16:49, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by Bannock »

Why the discombobulation about the town houses? There's lots of terraced housing round there, so it isn't out of place.
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

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Bannock wrote: 29 Nov 2018 15:01 Why the discombobulation about the town houses? There's lots of terraced housing round there, so it isn't out of place.
It's not the fact that townhouses are proposed - it's where they are positioned that seems odd, right in the middle of a high-rise development with tower blocks on three sides and the railway embankment on the other. Low-rise developments certainly have their place, but I'm not convinced they work as a tiny pocket inside a high-rise site. I'd suggest that the Reading-on-Thames idea of small start-up business units would be a better use of that space.
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by Melchett »

Stargazer wrote: 29 Nov 2018 14:38
Younger people tend to need entertainment, not schools, and on average visit the doctor less often.
Isn't there a rise in mental health issues amongst the young though? Whilst older people visit the doctor more for physical wear and tear....
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by windrush »

Melchett wrote: 03 Dec 2018 12:06
Stargazer wrote: 29 Nov 2018 14:38
Younger people tend to need entertainment, not schools, and on average visit the doctor less often.
Isn't there a rise in mental health issues amongst the young though? Whilst older people visit the doctor more for physical wear and tear....
There certainly is, two of my neighbours have children and grandchildren with such 'problems' and our main school has some pupils carrying out in depth research into it. Our Doctors surgery is setting up a specialist mental health department as well.

Pete.
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by Melchett »

windrush wrote: 03 Dec 2018 12:56
Melchett wrote: 03 Dec 2018 12:06
Stargazer wrote: 29 Nov 2018 14:38
Younger people tend to need entertainment, not schools, and on average visit the doctor less often.
Isn't there a rise in mental health issues amongst the young though? Whilst older people visit the doctor more for physical wear and tear....
There certainly is, two of my neighbours have children and grandchildren with such 'problems' and our main school has some pupils carrying out in depth research into it. Our Doctors surgery is setting up a specialist mental health department as well.

Pete.
It's all well saying people won't need cars due to the proximity to public transport or use the doctors as much as it will be mostly young people living there. However it's always fanciful thinking in my experience. All these developments will have a huge impact on an already struggling infrastructure.
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by Dai Brainbocs »

The thing that never gets mentioned is how many occupiers in developments like this, the BMW site and Homebase might need a car to do the jobs that fund the mortgage or rent.
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by Voiceoftreason? »

Young people - and by that I would say e between the ages of 20 and 30? - also tend to be more socially active. More activity, such as playing sports or goingto the gym, can lead to injuries. Nothing major, just niggles. Ditto drinking and having fun. Young people also have a habit of getting pregnant, which leads to babies I’m told, and they need looking after medically.

So whilst older people may statistically require more medical intervention, this may be partially due to the numbers of older people as opposed to younger ones, and relative co-morbidities/complexity of condition, I would venture to suggest younger people have at least an equal portion of healthcare needs if you factor in lifestyle choices, pre and anti natal needs and MH conditions etc.

In the good old days, which of course I’m far too young to remember, housing estates were build with a surgery, pub, church, school and shops all in close proximity, thereby not only serving the needs of the population, but generating communities as well. That is a thing of the past of course, as councils and many private developers either don’t have the cash to build or seek to maximise profits.

Hence we are gradually building rabbit hutches in the sky.
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Re: Hermes - Major proposed development

Post by windrush »

Voiceoftreason? wrote: 04 Dec 2018 08:43(snip)


In the good old days, which of course I’m far too young to remember, housing estates were build with a surgery, pub, church, school and shops all in close proximity, thereby not only serving the needs of the population, but generating communities as well. That is a thing of the past of course, as councils and many private developers either don’t have the cash to build or seek to maximise profits.

Interestingly on Wheatley Road in Doncaster there is a huge 'plot' where the International tractor factory stood until recently and a whole new village is proposed for that. It had to include a school and a surgery (and possibly other services?) to get past the planners, however as it is on an already very busy dual carriageway through Doncaster I can see traffic issues if and when it is finally completed!

Pete.
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